As The World Turns Discussion Thread

[Vee]

A lot of soap stars (and people) have trended hard right over recent years, though there have always been many quietly conservative actors in soaps. With MB I think it has to do with her husband.

I'll always enjoy and appreciate her performances, though I find her politics reprehensible. Hopefully someday she'll come to her senses, but I have no sympathy for her spouse.

[Liberty City]

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Van Hansis pretty much confirming he's had no contact with Byrne, and has a relationship with Beck says a lot.

[DRW50]

That was a very difficult time for her on the show, so to be fair to her, maybe she just wasn't close to anyone beyond those she had already worked with.

I never liked her as Lily, and I'm glad I never did. My Lily will always be Heather Rattray, wherever she is now.

Edited Thursday at 02:33 AM by DRW50

[Liberty City]

Based on Hansis' body language, it did not feel like a positive relationship with her.

And based on what I've seen, I adore Heather Rattray! Under-appreciated so much.

[MarlandFan]

No shade on Byrne who owned the role for many reasons, but I thought Rattray was great.  I would have had no problem if she had decided to remain in the role beyond her 3-year contract. 

[Liberty City]

Rattray did what she was asked to do and then, after four years, was dismissed with the prospect of bringing Byrne back with the assistance of Douglas Marland. Jon Hensley, at the time, remarked he and Rattray didn't have the "underlying chemistry" required to make the pairing work as the reason for her dismissal.

[MarlandFan]

To be fair, Jon Hensley doesn't have chemistry with anyone. 

[Liberty City]

I thought he and Maura West were electrifying in their all-too-short romance. And while Beck did fine with Carly vs Lily, I do think it would've stuck better with Byrne in the role.

[DRW50]

 

The funniest part is he and Byrne also didn't seem right when she returned - Holden was just so cold (which had started years before the brain injury but was now ossified) and Byrne had more of a genuine spark with Paolo Seganti. A gorgeous, rich, charming man of the world or a sanctimonious, constipated, deadbeat dad? Some choice.

Later on, when Hensley returned and the show just made Holden a dumb house husband and "hero" rather than trying to actually write for him, they seemed to have more chemistry, although I was never much of a fan.

This is one of those situations where Rattray was the first Lily I saw. If she hadn't been, I might feel differently. Maybe not, as Mary Ellen Stuart was "my" Frannie and I still enjoy all I've seen of Julianne Moore, but it's a factor.

I remember reading that Byrne did not care for the business stories Lily was in when she came back. I can understand why. Business stories had had their day on ATWT - even if Marland had lived, they had hit a wall, in part because so much focus went to KMH bursting out of tight skirts and tops (I think the Marlena de Lacroix quote was, "t'aint fittin'...and t'aint natural either") and because having three companies chattering on about mergers was never what the core of the show should have been, no matter how much fun you could have with Liz Hubbard, Tom Wiggin, Jenny O'Hara, etc. 

The problem is once Lily was taken entirely out of the business world she was just a stricken heroine. Once she aged out of that, she was, by the late '90s, wandering around a mansion wearing baggy, flowery dresses. I'm sure that's true to life for heiresses, but it's not especially interesting to watch. Things had to just happen to her, but she had no character. She rarely did under Byrne. What helped Byrne was she had a certain earnestness even though she was never much of an actress.

I don't think Rattray was a very good actress either, but Marland not being so personally fond of her the way he was with Byrne meant he was willing to make some tough choices with the character. I still wonder if Rattray could have played out the story of Lily becoming cold and ruthless due to all of her losses. Marland cut it short fairly quickly. Redirecting her to Holden once Hensley returned was just easier. And then Marland smartly turned around the happily ever after concept with one tragedy after another, which went back to what I think the core of Lily should have been - Iva and Lucinda had, from Lily's conception, done what they felt was right for her, with this going on to hurt her so many times. The brilliance of the "truth about Aaron" story was that Iva and Lucinda each trying to "protect" Lily ended up completely destroying her. 

When Lily did return, this should have led to story for years and years - her estrangement from Iva, running away to a fantasy life with Damian, disavowing her adoption from Lucinda. It's a shame that none of this really worked...and I am not sure Byrne was ever comfortable with the material, or a good enough actress to play the material.

I remember talk that Byrne was happier playing Rose because Rose was similar to her. I can believe that, as Rose (fond as I was of her) would have also gone on to be a huge Trump supporter. 

If the writing had been better in the show's later years, I would have had Lily coming to grips with a hollow life and a dreary marriage, trying to find her identity and rarely succeeding. Resenting Lucinda being freer with the grandkids than she ever was with Lily. Maybe bring back Iva for a while, showing how they have lost touch, little by little, and have Lily nurse her through an illness or some mental health story. Reveal that the farm stopped being a real farm many years ago and Lily has kept it afloat as what amounts to a museum for the last time she felt happy. Have her meddle in the lives of her kids the way Lucinda did with her, like trying to find the "right" man for Luke, or manipulate him into the career she wants for him, etc. 

I'm not sure Byrne would have or could played it, but we'll never know.

Noelle Beck may have (Lily and Trisha weren't that far apart anyway, other than Trisha not having the whole town throw her birthday parties...) although I think she was always screwed in that part, due to the lousy state of the show and the horrible optics of how Byrne was treated at the end.

Edited Thursday at 06:23 PM by DRW50

[MarlandFan]

You make so many great points.  And you're 100% correct about Damien Grimaldi.  Marland was determined to challenge the Lily/Holden super couple by creating a "perfect" foil in Damien.  But the casting of Seganti made it a slam/dunk finish right from the outset.  Why rekindle a romance with a man who will never remember you and who is basically a blank slate, when you can have a life with a rich Adonis who adores you?  While Marland may have had ideas about how to make the triangle work, his death put an end to whatever long-term story he had in mind.  The new writers, faced with an aimless Holden and an unhappy Seganti (who after a year of the grind wanted to leave), suddenly made Damien a careless, vengeful husband.  The push towards a Holden/Lily reunion felt very out of character for all involved.  Plot-driven, not character-driven.

[DRW50]

That's fascinating. I didn't know Seganti almost left that early on. It helps explain some of the choices. I still wonder if Luke would have been Holden's son if Hensley hadn't decided to leave.

[prefab1]

This might sound harsh, but I think the show killed off the wrong twin. Lily had reached a dead end story-wise, but Rose still had years of story left in her, and Byrne had great chemistry with Scott Holroyd's Paul (who also never should have been fired). I'm sure the Lily and Holden fans would have protested, but in the years I was watching the show (2000-2010), the two of them were just kind of depressing to watch, like an all-too-realistic look at what happens to a pair of high school sweethearts when they start aging and the sexual chemistry fades away. 

[DRW50]

I would have agreed at the time...and I'd still agree now. On paper I think there's more you could do with Lily, but we weren't going to get that. 

[Liberty City]

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 (and you did not lie).

For me, Beck was not Lily; growing up with Byrne, she was Lily to me. And again, the way for which her exit was handled was... poor. But I do think Beck handled it as best as I am sure she could have. And the mere fact she willingly went to recurring (and offered for to step out of the role for Byrne to return for the final episodes) shows her character.

[DRW50]

That was very gracious. I remember her saying how hard it was for Jon to play their final scenes. She was a class act.