Seriously, people need to stop labeling these writers "showkillers." It's so childish. ATWT's death notice was signed long before they (and even Passanante) ever entered the picture. All of the shows, not just the P&G's, have all been on a downward trajectory for years now. It's just the nature of the ever-decreasing share of the network-viewing audience. The P&G shows, because of their expense to produce and appeal toward a older demo (compared to some other shows), just happened to be the first to go. No amount of amazing storytelling could've saved ATWT or GL. I kind of get Kreisman's writing and though I've never been a huge fan of Swajeski or Passanante, I don't understand why they're considered showkillers when they just happened to have been on the writing team of shows that were already failing.

I totally disagree about ATWT being done before Pissy entered the door almost 10 years ago. Yes, the genre as a whole has been having serious problems, but As the World Turns was by no means any more dead than AMC, Days, or OLTL that many years ago. With the proper writer, ATWT could have been brought back from the brink in the same manner as DOOL. Let's not forget that it has had B&B (#2 rated show) as a lead in the east which would have aided in any creative rebirth. GL was finished when the network allowed locals to flips it's time slot to early mornings.

As a sidenote, ABC tried to buy characters from Another World in 1999 but PGP said no. ABC daytime just made a statement about Passanate joining at Caravati's request because big changes are coming. By any chance, does anyone think that PGP might now be willing to sell characters since they are now out of the TV business?

Lynn Lathman? When did she last cause soap ratings to go up? (And Pam Long was disaster at OLTL in the late 90s)

I agree, it's curious. It'sbizarre, to say the least.

Passanante wrote for OLTL when Carlivati started there, right? Or did he come later? I would think they'd know each other, though I wonder if any of it was his decision. (I still find it funny that she BROKE a contract with AMC and ran away--of course amongst rumours of her quick firing--yet is back ith the network)

I do think the micromanaging thing plays a part--the rumour was that's why Broderick didn't return to AMC in 2003 - she didn't want to work under Frons. As for Goutman, didn't he start at AMC as one of their best loved directors, before moving to P&G?

OT

Q&A with Frons in the new SID:

Does the network listen to what fans have to say?

"We're always listening to fans and trying to respond," admitting that the process isn't always perfect. "Sometimes, it takes us too long to admit something's not working. ....

I wish he would admit that he is not right for the jobs

I think for someone to be a showkiller they must actually have a hand in... well, killing the show

Well, they're sending her to OLTL next. What more do you need to know?

JPiss came from ABC.

It's hard to blame Kriezman for GL's demise. The show's budget woes certainly weren't his fault. Didn't he write a lot of the Jonathan stuff, which some thought was golden?

And Sherman---she did a lot of good work. She was a good enough team player to take on a lot of extra responsibilies at the end. At least I can believe she'll do a much better job with stronger staff and direction.

Kreizman is a BIG part of GL's failure but you are right, there is a long list of culprits, going back to JFP. However, at the point that GL was taken over by Wheeler and Kreizman, he COULD have turned things around. The Jonathon stuff was great at first, as was Phllip goes to hell and takes SF with him. However, if I have this right, wasn't Broderick consulting during those months of the Jonathon intro, Phillip's "death," and Roger's son coming to town? And to another point, Jonathon's intro as the bad boy Reva hater/Lewis nemises was created by Taggert, (he was going to be Reva's stalker) and the Phillip goes nuts thing was started by Weston. Left to his own devices he does not have an original idea in his head, at least those that he can extend to long term storytelling (hence after December of his first year how it all went down hill, Jonathon became a generic misunderstood bad boy, Phillip's death was all about Gush, and the Coopers took over the show. Kreizman can write great single standing episodes (hence why the ITL's were created) but he can't tell long term story.

And it is interesting to note that Kreizman got his original head writing gig on GL much as people are saying that he had his current one, no one else wanted it. The pay (for a headwiter) sucked, no one wanted to work under MADD and her micromanaging, and the writers that Wheeler wanted all were vetoed by MADD. The only person left standing was Dumb Davey, who, I gotta say, has the knack of being in the right place at the right time.

However, on both PG shows, Wheeler and Goutman were calling the shots and the blame goes all to them.

^^^I really don't know specific dates/details for GL. IMO though, GL was mortally wounded with the Maryanne Carruthers/Reva walks through pictures/Roger's son's obsession with Holly days. Kriezman was a feeble life support to be sure...but GL was brain dead long before that.

I know it's easy to blame Wheeler and Goutman...and if GL and ATWT were the only shows suffering historic drops in viewership, I'd agree 100%. But this is an industry wide problem. And other than DAYS, no show has sustained any kind of rebound. I think ATWT and GL could have definitely had better writing...but I'm not sure in these economic realities that it would have made a difference. Not when you can produce CRAP like LMAD for maybe a third of the cost.

^^^I really don't know specific dates/details for GL. IMO though, GL was mortally wounded with the Maryanne Carruthers/Reva walks through pictures/Roger's son's obsession with Holly days. Kriezman was a feeble life support to be sure...but GL was brain dead long before that.

I know it's easy to blame Wheeler and Goutman...and if GL and ATWT were the only shows suffering historic drops in viewership, I'd agree 100%. But this is an industry wide problem. And other than DAYS, no show has sustained any kind of rebound. I think ATWT and GL could have definitely had better writing...but I'm not sure in these economic realities that it would have made a difference. Not when you can produce CRAP like LMAD for maybe a third of the cost.

Davey came up with Roger's son and the obsession. However, you are right in that GL was bleeding guts after Con/West, but not so much that a good stitching would have not helped. When Wheeler/Kriezman got there the show's core (as much as what was left after JFP and her successors fucked with the show so much) was still in place, and they could have rebounded. How much was Davey and how much was Wheeler, who can say, I just know that his long range storytelling made me turn it off (people would say and do things one day, and in the next scene it was contradicted, the emphasis was on five characters at all time, etc.) and I sat through all of that crap you mentioned. The funny thing is, Kreizman was responsible for one of the best GL episodes ever, the 70th anniversary show, so he knew the history, had the talent, but just couldn't and probably still cant, do long term storytelling. That was Wheeler's bad for not seeing it and doing everything she could to demote him earlier.

ATWT and GL were the "perfect," shows to do a Days kind of turn around, if MADD, Wheelie and Goutman would have had the foresight. When I watch Days it is a simple show, with a few sets, etc. There are a lot of newbies from when I watched it but there are also tons of old faces who are on a lot, some driving story, some not. The PG shows werent ment to be "flashy," MADD and others were so intent on making them like ABC in the early 80s..and that isnt what the show were about,) so both Wheeler and Goutman could have whittled them down to their core and got rid of the top heavy expensive people ( KZ/LW/BC) and at least extended the shows for another few years. Imagine if Wheeler and Co had the balls to actually reunite Jeva, and then send them off happy when the original budget cuts came down???

Frons has recently raided the CBS and PGP 'talent' pool by hiring former GL and ATWT writer David Kreizman, ATWT Head Writer Jean Pissantee and ATWT Script Editor Courtney Simon for ABC Daytime. My main question is WHY?

Simple: It's tremendously easier (on TPTB, if not always the audience) to hire people who have more experience than to train someone new to the genre. Of course, these days, just about everyone who works in daytime strikes fear in viewers' hearts. OTOH, Frons' reputation is probably so problematic that anyone who could actually do some good for this business chooses to stay away out of fear of working alongside that man, as well as his counterparts at the other networks.

+1 and wow Khan and I agree!

Edited April 29, 201015 yr by EricMontreal22

Courtney Simon has worked for ABC Daytime before. In 1996 she was hired by Lorraine Broderick to be a breakdown writer for All My Children. She worked at All My Children until 1997, when Lorraine Borderick was replaced by Megan McTavish. Courtney then went to General Hospital for a year or so until she hired to work as script writer for Another World. Courtney also served as a breakdown writer of Loving in 1991 for a few months.

In reality she is returning to the network were she worked before.

As is Jean P, of course.