Precisely. She chased trends. Underground ones. However, the she explored them all, pretty much, and now there isn't much underground she can do. At least not something which would fit her.

Well the fact is, she's too old to do most of the ones that are out there (there surely are new underground trends she hasn't explored, but yeah, little would fit now). I dunno, I almost think she should start just making an album for herself--at this point in her career, when frankly she's not gaining a ton of new fans anyway with her new stuff, that would be the mostinteresting. But that would come hard fro Madonna I think--to do an album and not care about its chart success, etc...

(Kylie Minogue is ten years Madonna's junior--and a very different performer of course, I'm not comparing them even if the European media constantly does and has all through their careers--but she's been having some similar problems as she gets older, finding an image that still fits her campier, pop princess icon yet is a bit more mature and, frankly classier).

Tell that to the record companies who don't spend much on music video promotion anymore.

If you look at the albums that are selling these days, and the recording industry is SUFFERING, very little is invested into music videos for these artists. They just aren't profitable anymore, hence why Gaga had to use all the product placement to pay for this video.

Yeah, I do see what your point is. I guess I was saying, if people tried and put effort in their videos, people will watch it to generate buzz.

My fave from ROL was actually Power of Goodbye, video wise even if it's a complete hommage/rip off to the Joan Crawford movie, Humoresque--it's just shot SOOO beautifully. But actually I prefered all the ROL videos (even the UK only Substitue for Love) over Ray of Light's--but I know that video still made more of an impact.

I found The Power of Good-Bye to be cheap sleaze. That greeny, fluorescenty cheap prevailing colour... The only thing I liked was the helicopter shot of those unforgiving shores.

I love it how people's tastes differ.

Frozen, Alvin, I liked because it was so... Ominous. The desert, the floating, the dog, the murder of crows... I just loved it. Am I saying it's the highest achievement of humanity in video direction? No.

LMAO! I knew that would sound as if I'm a crotchety old neighbour.

I love trash music. I love cr*p Timbaland, Timberlake, Ke$ha, Britney... and the whole armada of others who make ringtone music, R&B drivel, "infernal music"... I really have no problem with any 'genre' or 'style' (except metal, that's just horror).

Goodness no!

And if such album existed, I wouldn't ask for another.

Ha fair enough--I dunno, it made me picture Enya or something kinda dull like Dido by your description Glad it's not. You love Ke$ha but not Gaga? Still, I'm glad you're not a secret metal head

Although by the 90s Madonna's interviews became a real chore to sit through--I think I have a bunch on tape (yes I was obsessed) from Ray of Light where she tries to be deep and they're just ENDLESS--this was before the British accent but they do remind me of Gaga interviews where she says pseudo "deep" things in a quiet monotone voice with little excitement.

As much as I loved that era, the Ray of Light era was the beginning of Madonna taking herself too seriously and losing her sense of humour a bit.

Though, as I mentioned before, she seems to be going though a rejuvenation process again and seems lively for the first time in ages again. Hopefully, it translates well into the music...

But comparing the interviews and self-promotion of Madonna and Gaga earlier on in their careers, and there's a striking difference and memorable way that Madonna presented herself, which Gaga just doesn't have and just can't communicate the image she wants to communicate.

I found The Power of Good-Bye to be cheap sleaze. That greeny, fluorescenty cheap prevailing colour... The only thing I liked was the helicopter shot of those unforgiving shores.

I love it how people's tastes differ.

Frozen, Alvin, I liked because it was so... Ominous. The desert, the floating, the dog, the murder of crows... I just loved it. Am I saying it's the highest achievement of humanity in video direction? No.

Sleaze? It's one of the Madonna videos with the least skin Yeah the shot of the shores andher walking is a literal reshoot of the beach scenes in Humoresque (I think there's a youtube that shows them back to back).

When Frozen came out a lot of people compared it to some similar Bjork videos of the time...

(Funny what you learn from threads--I never knew Y&RWorltTurner's name was Alvin )

I wish she'd do one final video with him. LOL. He really really wanted to do Evita but wasn't a big enough name to get the rights--I think Parker's Evita is a decent film, but Fincher's would have been more interesting anyway. (The man has said repeatedly how much he likes musicals but wants to do a dark one--and he's amazing at filming dance--even in non Madonna videos like Abdul's Cold Hearted Snake video with its Fosse's All That Jazz hommage).

Fincher is a fabulous director, and I'm not surprised he's made it in Hollywood.

And he's still very much proud of his music video roots.

Add me to the list that hopes she works with him again before she dies. LOL!

Edited March 13, 201015 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

But comparing the interviews and self-promotion of Madonna and Gaga earlier on in their careers, and there's a striking difference and memorable way that Madonna presented herself, which Gaga just doesn't have and just can't communicate the image she wants to communicate.

I think I like Gaga, her image, her live performance and presence, much more than you, but I will agree there. Actually, I wish she'd just stop giving interviews I find them so embarassing to watch--that's where you do start to wonder if the emperor has no clothes, because what she says sounds so phony and rehearsed. I don't find that even with her most stupidor ridiculous outfits in her tour, etc--but when she speaks to an interviewer

Ha fair enough--I dunno, it made me picture Enya or something kinda dull like Dido by your description Glad it's not. You love Ke$ha but not Gaga? Still, I'm glad you're not a secret metal head

Like I said, I listen to a lot of stuff. I can't stand metal, often I can't stand banjo music. And some other stuff.

I listen to GaGa. However, I am not mesmerised and I am not going to thank her for "reintroducing disco to US music scene" or any such stuff. Those are just nice, cutesy, often obnoxious songs. I love to observe the whole phenomenon of trash and how people are smitten by her and her cheap awfulness.

Sleaze? It's one of the Madonna videos with the least skin Yeah the shot of the shores andher walking is a literal reshoot of the beach scenes in Humoresque (I think there's a youtube that shows them back to back).

When Frozen came out a lot of people compared it to some similar Bjork videos of the time...

(Funny what you learn from threads--I never knew Y&RWorltTurner's name was Alvin )

Sleaze. It was like Goran Višnjić is this hunk, we're playin' a game of love here, the game is represented by chess... It all takes place in some god-forsaken villa in the UK on those desperate shores where the waves hit the rocks like nowhere on earth.

Sleaze is not just "skin", boobs, ass, French kissing and all.

Sleaze? It's one of the Madonna videos with the least skin Yeah the shot of the shores andher walking is a literal reshoot of the beach scenes in Humoresque (I think there's a youtube that shows them back to back).

Here's the funny thing, The Power of Goodbye was shot on the same beach where she shot the video for Cherish (Herb Ritts FIRST music video as director).

Oh I just noticed that this video is a continuation of "Paparazzi" and since there's a "To Be Continued" at the end of this video, there's going to be a 3rd part - I'm sure to be directed by Akerlund too.

Well the fact is, she's too old to do most of the ones that are out there (there surely are new underground trends she hasn't explored, but yeah, little would fit now). I dunno, I almost think she should start just making an album for herself--at this point in her career, when frankly she's not gaining a ton of new fans anyway with her new stuff, that would be the mostinteresting. But that would come hard fro Madonna I think--to do an album and not care about its chart success, etc...

Exactly. Now you're talking. Sheesh. We went from Enya (??!?!) to you getting the whole mature album. She is just OLD, like you point out, and it all turns out A FARCE. It will never happen though. We're not going to deceive ourselves.

Although by the 90s Madonna's interviews became a real chore to sit through--I think I have a bunch on tape (yes I was obsessed) from Ray of Light where she tries to be deep and they're just ENDLESS--this was before the British accent but they do remind me of Gaga interviews where she says pseudo "deep" things in a quiet monotone voice with little excitement.

Madonna is just shallow and uneducated, she needs to zip it. The whole philosophy et al. blabber is so out of place for her. Even the kabbalah thing she's doing is many things but not kabbalah.

Well the fact is, she's too old to do most of the ones that are out there (there surely are new underground trends she hasn't explored, but yeah, little would fit now). I dunno, I almost think she should start just making an album for herself--at this point in her career, when frankly she's not gaining a ton of new fans anyway with her new stuff, that would be the mostinteresting. But that would come hard fro Madonna I think--to do an album and not care about its chart success, etc...

At this point, I think Madonna just needs to concentrate in making good dance music, and sometimes with her a serious undertone.

She did start off in the New York club scene, her roots have always been in dance music, even as she's experimented a lot.

Because of her age primarily, her commercial heyday is over. Now she just needs to do the type of music her target audience and core audience expects from her.

(Kylie Minogue is ten years Madonna's junior--and a very different performer of course, I'm not comparing them even if the European media constantly does and has all through their careers--but she's been having some similar problems as she gets older, finding an image that still fits her campier, pop princess icon yet is a bit more mature and, frankly classier).

I think Kylie too just needs to target the audience she has and stick with it.

Though, commercially, it did seem like Fever was a bit of a fluke for her. The albums and singles since haven't generated much success for her in the UK or Aus.