HBO: Game of Thrones

[EricMontreal22]

HOW did it though? I admit I'm not a big "Show Shae" fan, but they clearly used her partly to show and dramatize things that in the books we understood because chapters of the books were written from Tyrion's POV. It was a clever dramatic way of getting around that.

I do not see how any of this "completely" destroys the "book story." That makes it sound like the tv show makes zero sense as its own story now.

In fact, I'm pretty sure it'll do quite the opposite.

[DRW50]

I think one of the problems with a book to show transition with Shae is that they changed the character for most of her run but then didn't change the character when time came for a reveal of betrayal. Even the actress had a problem with some of this betrayal, because she did not believe that Shae would betray Sansa. If the character had been portrayed as cold and hard and just out for survival, then her betraying both Sansa and Tyrion would make more sense.

I think most of the changes they made to Shae worked, and I could say that even her turning against Tyrion made some sense, if she felt like Tyrion had used her and discarded her. It's just that a smart woman (and Shae seemed smart) being so blinded is a little OOC for me. I wish they'd emphasized more that the Lannisters had given her little choice in the matter. Instead they were going for a mixture of things and I don't believe it fully worked.

I think some changes from book to show do work. I was very fond of Talisa and I think she was a good addition to Robb's story and downfall. I think the stuff with Bran made some sense and helped up the emotional stakes.

The Shae stuff...I don't think it entirely came off. And I don't think it's necessarily just book purists who feel that way.

Edited May 13, 2014 by DRW50

[ThePrinceOfSunspear]

Appreciate that. I know it's fun to gang up on the lone book fan but I just think it's a valid to point out what is different between the two even if you don't care. I care and that's enough for me....

[Antoyne]

Thatd be great if we weren't four seasons in and you weren't still shocked that, omg the show isn't exactly like the book, EVERY episode.

[ThePrinceOfSunspear]

You can be hostile all you want but I'm not going to stop stating my opinion or pointing out differences so long as its not breaking the rules. Plus I find it interesting to compare the two.

Finally if you don't like my posts on the topic then simply don't read them. But getting mad because I dislike the show and think the writers are beyond stupid and putting out sh*t for the most part when it comes to the plot isn't going to drive me away. More to the point where have I ever said that I contacted them to demand that they change things? If I really thought I had that power I would have exercised it beginning at the end of season 2. But I know I don't have that power. Nor do I have the time or energy to waste on what I know would be a fruitless effort. So NO I haven't started a Change.com petition to remove the writers and change the story to more align with the books. Because that's just dumb. However I can point out when they have effed up and display it whether or not u want to know.

Lastly I haven't said I'm "shocked" by changes. Words matter....I'm not surprised or shocked. Its just disappointing and sad in a way. But overall I find it frustrating as I've said plenty of times before....

[Antoyne]

So you watch to....complain? Your post flat out says you dislike the show. So you literally are only watching so that you can point out what's different about the book and show and complain?

[Bright Eyes]

I find the first part fascinating as long as I'm not spoiled, which, thankfully hasn't happened yet.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Bright Eyes

[Vee]

I wouldn't mind differences being pointed out if most of them didn't either a) tread on spoiler territory or simply serve as more fodder for bitching. That's 90% of these posts.

And I don't have a problem with Shae being on the stand. Whoever put her there put her there to bury Tyrion - and if it was Cersei, then that certainly included Sansa. If they were going to get her up there on the stand, they were going to get her to say what they wanted. It's not "sure, say whatever you want since you're mad at Tyrion." She chose to betray Tyrion - which I totally bought for her character, given her petulant, ridiculous attitude about their relationship for the last two [!@#$%^&*] years - but she didn't have a choice when it came to the scope of the thing. That's the way those kind of schemes work. She was clearly emotional and torn, and that was enough for me to illustrate her having mixed feelings about doing what she was doing (to both Tyrion and Sansa).

I mean, in some ways the showrunners can't win for losing - if Shae was as cold, mercenary and throwaway a character as some are claiming she was in the books, you'd hear people saying, 'oh, it's misogyny, she's just a heartless whore used for sex scenes.' They try to flesh the character out while still fulfilling her same story function, they give her a heart and show that she's torn by what she's doing and then it becomes, 'Shae would never do that.' That's not fair, IMO. And yeah, fair is still a question even if it's the audience critiquing a show. The audience isn't by default right because they read the books or have a lot of passionate feelings about it. That doesn't trump anything.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Vee

[DRW50]

You can't please everyone, and I agree that if she'd been completely hard then some people would have been upset. This is one of those moments that was going to anger a lot of fans no matter what.

I do think in this case, when they knew what the character was and they chose to change her, they should have considered changing how this moment was played as well. Not because of needing to stick to the books, just because of consistency with the character. I can believe that it's woman scorned + being pressured by the Lannisters, I just thought it was somewhat poorly done onscreen.

I think they want us to be angry on Tyrion's behalf, so they don't want to make her too sympathetic. I get that, but if it were me, I would have added a scene, like perhaps at the start of the season, or the end of last season, a drunk Tyrion telling Bronn that he never should have gotten involved with Shae or that he never should have fooled himself into a life with a whore, and she overhears. Then when he sends her away, she won't even consider that it was for her own good, she will just remember what he said to Bronn and assume she is excess baggage.

Edited May 13, 2014 by DRW50

[Vee]

But he did say those things to her to get her to leave just a couple episodes ago - that is what she was repeating back to him on the stand. It clearly hurt him to say it and crushed her to hear it.

[DRW50]

I know. But for all her emotions and pride, she's a smart woman. On some level I think she would have known he was saying these things to make her go, to protect her, even if that wouldn't have hurt any less. If he'd said something similar (in her mind at least) when she wasn't around, I think it would have pushed her more over the edge into wanting to hurt him.

[Vee]

I can understand that, but that's something I think Tyrion simply would never have said of his own volition. He adored her.

[ThePrinceOfSunspear]

How are my posts spoiling anything? I watch the episode and I post. I don't say anything about the future unless another person has talked about it.

And just like 90% of your posts are just gushing about how amazing the show is and the writing team is for writing nothing but sex, violence, and random plots that go no where and have no rhyme or reason just so they can appeal to the lowest common denominator of viewers.

[Vee]

Maybe we just see something you don't.

[DRW50]

I can see why they deleted this scene, as we already knew this about Pycelle, and as much as I enjoy Julian Glover, a little of this character goes a very long way, but I still like the scene. It's nice to see Tywin in another setting and is a good glimpse at some of the jostling after Tywin took over King's Landing.

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