HBO: Game of Thrones

[Vee]

I don't think that fan reality is any part of the show. Especially now. They've always done whatever they wanted, it's not like the soaps that used to bend to fan feedback or a teen drama on basic cable or something. This was all filmed months ago.

I think if it was about fan feedback we'd have seen Daenerys and Drogo, a hugely popular couple in Season 1, together forever, or Robb Stark taking back the North, or Tyrion just getting one over on his family instead of constantly being humiliated and ground down (I think he will be getting his own back once and for all by the end of this season, so that'll be nice). Instead they did other things, and especially since Season 3 they have doubled down on characters like Sansa - they said specifically how much they wanted to focus in on her and beef up her character and they've done that, are continuing to do that, and they've talked a lot about how some of the audience or critics misjudge and misunderstand Sansa, etc. This is a series built on books from another source, I really don't think they're going to invert the show based on fan feedback now.

Speaking of Sansa and Arya and the Hound - might they be meeting soon after all? I mean, if Arya and the Hound are headed to the Eyrie, isn't that Littlefinger's current de facto base of operations, as he's supposed to be wooing crazy Lysa Arryn?

Edited April 22, 2014 by Vee

[DRW50]

They won't make huge changes from the books, I agree. I just meant tweaking what is already there. I think that Tyrion and Arya are both somewhat one-dimensional in part because they're such fan favorites. Hopefully that will change as the season rolls along.

[Juliajms]

By the way, I'm sorry if it seemed like I was pissing on something you enjoyed. For me, it would be a lot more exciting to see a bisexual threesome with characters I have a relationship with. Say Jaime, Cersei and Magaery or Loras/Jaime/Cersei, decided to hatch a plot to over throw Tywin, while getting it on. That would really be fun, but when it's just random prostitutes that doesn't get me involved in the same way, but I do enjoy The Red Vipers view of sexuality.

[quartermainefan]

He is one of my new favorite characters. I loved the way he threw the digs at Cersei and how he is so cool he is probably the only one who openly has no respect for Tywin and there is very little Tywin can do about it. If this was Dynasty, now he would fall for Cersei and Ser Loras and Cersei would wind up pregnant but unclear who the father was. He didn't see pervy to me. He likes prostitutes, so does Tyrion and probably half the cast off camera.

[Vee]

But why does their being fan favorites make them one-dimensional? In the case of this show, anyway, I think the only people reducing them or the show's other characters to one dimension are some myopic fans. I don't think that reflects the actual writing of the characters, myself.

[quartermainefan]

I don't think they being fan favorites has much to do with anything. Ned was a fan favorite and he didn't fare too well. To me the one dimensional character is Stannis the Grouch but how many fans he has isn't what makes him one dimensional.

[Juliajms]

I'm with you. Sansa had her backbone tested when Joffery made her look at Ned's head. She dug deep and found her inner strength. I loved it that she didn't let him break her. She nearly killed that little monster right then and there. The Hound stopped her, but I never thought he was saving Joffery, just Sansa from being killed for killing the King.

[YRBB]

Well, the truth is Oberyn really hasn't done much other than talk about sex up until now so I'm not surprised he comes off this way. But (non spoiler) knowing what's coming up it seems they are using these scenes to give the character something to do until some of his bigger stuff comes up later. They might also be building up to sex with Loras, although that's pure speculation.

Aaaaw, no worries. That's what I mostly enjoyed: his little side convo about bisexuality (and the later stuff with Tywin, of course). Other than that, the rest of the scene wasn't that exciting lol

Edited April 22, 2014 by YRBB

[Vee]

I don't think Stannis is one-dimensional at all. It's all in the eyes and the posture. I love that fucked-up dysfunctional suburban family setup on Dragonstone, with the added addition of Melisandre as the crazy preacher from down the lane. If Stannis could ever get out of his own head, how he thinks he should behave, what he's internalized as to how he should act as a Baratheon ruler, he could do very well allying with the right person. But that's most of the characters in power on this show.

I'm not sure any of them will come out of it alive, but hey.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Vee

[DRW50]

I think it makes the show less willing to write them with moments that take away from the popular fan characterization of them. Tyrion, other than some season 2 plotting when he was the hand, seems to be stuck in a rut of sad panda faces, Tyrion-the-noblest-Lannister-of-them-all, mixed with some witty one-liners. Perhaps he's also that way in the books - I don't know. But it's somewhat boring for me to watch on the show.

[YRBB]

I really love Stannis and Davos, as well as Melisandre. Even though I do hate to bring it up again, I do think they come off better in the books because so much of that part of the story is very internal. Davos' thoughts/chapters are really great, fascinating, and that clearly is not something you can do much of on TV. And, still, their dynamics, personalities, their little corner of Westeros is great.

[DRW50]

Like I said, I don't think fan favorites influences which characters die or don't. I just mean their characterization while on the show.

I don't mind Stannis too much. To be honest I think he'd be more interesting with less attempts at showing an edge (apparently he didn't choke Melisandre in the book), and if they just had him as a contrast to Melisandre and her fervent fundamentalism, but even the way he is on the show, I think the whole Dragonstone clan are believable and add something different to the show - they were supposed to be in power, they were supposed to have a glorious battle, but instead it's a long slow grind to irrelevance, and Stannis is literally torching everything about his people to try to regain relevance. I like that they have such somber lives, yet with Shireen we see some glimmer of hope for their future, if she somehow manages to survive without being horribly traumatized.

[YRBB]

I think this is mostly an example of a casualty due to the differences between the two mediums of books & TV. Because of the seasonal aspect of the TV show, a character who pretty much does very little from episodes 2-7 is clearly going to be considered stuck/stalling/even boring. Meanwhile, in the book, it can be over 300 pages since we last saw the character and it's absolutely fine because space & time works differently (if that makes any sense). However, what's the show to do? No choice but to create some extra scenes and/or wait until the various plot developments align themselves. Add to that that the books are about the journey and not the destination, as well as their generally slow pace, and it can be very difficult to translate that well into a show for some of the characters.

[DRW50]

I wish they'd have more of Loras with his sister and grandmother or with the knights, beyond just being the gay guy.

I know this is how Oberyn is written in the books too, and it's nice that he seems to have some sort of honor and isn't on there to be a villain, but he reminds me so much of some lewd 70's movie character who hits on all the wives in the neighborhood and then, wink wink, might want to hit on some husbands too. Bisexuality is a lurid tease in the writing for him. Instead of his just being a guy who is bisexual.

Again I know this isn't in the books so I can't criticize the show for it, but I would have been so happy if someone like Jon Snow had been bisexual - that would have been something different, especially since, other than his love for Ygritte, most of his stories aren't about his sexuality.

[DRW50]

I don't envy the show that. I know they got a lot of hate for their Dany story in season 2 (other than the House of the Undying being some type of casual stroll, I didn't mind her story in that season) because they had to make most of it up. I guess I wish they would either show the character (Tyrion) less, or expand his character and relationships as much as they can within the confines of the books.