HBO: Game of Thrones

[Juliajms]

Yes, Elia was married to Rhaegar Targaryen. Notice that Oberyn said that "he left her for another woman". This supports the theory that Rhaegar had taken Lyanna Stark as either a mistress or another wife. The idea being that Lyanna died giving birth to Jon Snow and made Ned vow to claim him, so that Robert wouldn't hurt him. I'm convinced this is why they made such a point of showing that Robert was willing to kill Targaryen children. The fly in the ointment is when Jon killed the white walker with fire and it burned his hand.

[Cheap21]

Cersei was awful to Jamie. What an ungrateful wench

What was Jamie supposed to do with Joffrey? Joffrey is king. Even Tywin kisses his ass. If Jamie tried to act like a father or even bring that up, he'd probably end up losing more than his hand.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Cheap21

[ThePrinceOfSunspear]

Lol I'm shocked they went "there" with The Red Viper's sexual tendencies....good for them tho. And I have to admit the scene was HAWT lol.

[Vee]

The Martells made quite an impression. I have loved Indira Varma since Rome - ironically, that was HBO's precursor show to GOT which taught them how to manage large budgets and large location shooting, but not before having to end that show to save their purse (it also starred Ciaran Hinds, Kevin McKidd, Ray Stevenson, the fantastic Polly Walker and the great Lindsay Duncan, among many others). She went on to Torchwood, among other things, and now it's great to see her here. Pedro Pascal was great pawing that hot spy at Littlefinger's pleasure den. I have my suspicions about what could happen at this famous Purple Wedding, but I have to believe that any potential swerve might come not from the obviously aggressive Martells but from someone else. I half-suspect the ruined Ser Dontos (which I keep reading as Ser Doritos) to take up arms against the Lannisters.

I love Jaime and Brienne together, but I don't know what Brienne expects Jaime to do here - send Sansa to crazy Lysa Tully who has been agitating against Kings Landing for at least a year? Like it or not, with Tyrion as her husband Sansa's life is relatively secure. As secure as it gets, because she's satisfied Tywin Lannister. If you can't do that, or at least stay off his radar, your life is forfeit. I loved the deeper look into Sansa and Jaime's characters last year and I love the continued emphasis on them this year. They seem like stock types early in Season 1, but there's so much more to both of them. It's so odd seeing Jaime all cleaned up and pretty again, alongside Brienne, who knows him better than most.

I was glad Jon had no time for the ancient Night's Watch bullshit. I also loved that very candid scene with him and Sam. Good stuff. It's about time Jon, like Daenerys, began taking on his rightful place in the narrative; I knew he would begin rising as one of the champions. Next up, hopefully, is Bran. Speaking of Daenerys, I suspect they intend to directly challenge her colonial 'liberator of slaves' narrative this year. I think Daenerys's cause is just, but that's only right and will be very interesting.

I'm over Shae. Sorry. Also, Arya was terrifying at the end, with that smile on her face as she killed the knight. Great work by Maisie Williams.

Edited April 10, 2014 by Vee

[Juliajms]

I'd be very surprised. Every time Dany frees slaves she gives them a choice. It's not like she really wants set up a colonial system. I do think Dany is going to be in over her head a bit, but I don't think this show is ever going to tell us she made a mistake by giving people their freedom from "the masters". Where they've gone wrong for me is making most of the people she's freeing darker skinned because that draws too many comparisons to modern history.

ETA: I think the main way the show justifies Dany being a savior of slaves is that when we first met her she was being sold to Drogo as a sex slave. She managed to turn that situation to her advantage by making him fall in love with her, but she started as a slave on her knees being raped by a "master."

Edited April 8, 2014 by Juliajms

[DRW50]

It's not so much her wanting to free slaves being wrong, it's the condescension in the presentation, sometimes in how she treats said people, sometimes in the writing or production itself. It's all very colonialist to me, even when it isn't intended to be. The only person I remember pointing out the emptiness of some of this "freedom" was the healer who killed Drogo and her unborn child.

[Juliajms]

She didn't point out the emptiness of freedom, she pointed out the emptiness of life when freedom and everything else has been taken from you. Dany was pretty much never in a position to free the healer or her people. She did what she could to lesson their suffering, but Drogo was in charge. Before she burned the healer, she did give everyone left the chance to leave. Not sure what else she could have done for them other than give them a choice.

I do think Dany did learn some real lesson about what war is from that whole experience. It's never going to be clean and if she wanted clean she could have just stayed at Quath and set up a kingdom there.

At the end of the day, all of these people are living under either a slave system or a feudal system. Only in the far north are what modern day times would call free and I doubt that Dany or Jon will change that.

[Vee]

The civil rights and politics in the world of GOT aren't the same as ours. Daenerys can only do the best she can for those people from her subjective experience and position of power. I do think she'll continue learning some lessons, but IMO to dismiss what she does as out of touch is to judge her by a real-world perspective that is removed from the context of that fantasy world and the way it is ruled.

[DRW50]

To me it's the same thing. What Dany saw as "freedom" was a very limited view. She thought this woman was indebted to her and didn't take the time to wonder how the woman must have felt, what she'd lost, and how that would affect who she was going to be after being "saved." If Dany had kept some of this in mind, she wouldn't have let the healer manipulate her into getting such revenge.

I think Dany doesn't entirely see those she "frees" as being people (yes she believes they are people in that they shouldn't be slaves, which is wonderful, but sometimes it's as if once she "frees" them, she forgets all the complications and baggage and that it's not as easy as them just dusting themselves off). That limits her as a leader. Hopefully this will be addressed and she can learn and grow.

[rhinohide]

I think there is a balance. Dany is a liberator but she also has to be a powerful and "commanding" leader to achieve her goals. Those are cross purposes and that is where her conflict arises.

[Eric83]

Renewed for 5th and 6th seasons

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2014/04/08/game-of-thrones-renewed-for-fifth-and-sixth-seasons-by-hbo/252379/

[ThePrinceOfSunspear]

Vee....you are a very clever person.....re your intuition....

The Martells are my favorite noble family (Arianne Martell is the person in my sig)....I love Dany as well but until she gets more family shes kinda isolated.

[DRW50]

What do you think of Jaime's haircut?

I think it makes him look more like Joffrey, although he doesn't have that New Wave highlights from hell thing going on the way Joffrey does. I just mean in the face, he looks more like Joffrey now.

Do you think Cersei would be as distant toward Jaime if he still had his other hand? Is it the passage of time that has made her distant?

[ThePrinceOfSunspear]

Jaime's haircut makes him look...well OLD is the first word that comes to mind. He just looks worn out and for good reason. I mean any man or woman who's been thru all the crap he's been thru would probably look a little bit worse for wear. I think its even more obvious for him cuz he's always thought of himself as a "Golden Lion" and he had the hair, physique, and two hands to back up that claim. So he just looked very tired and kinda tuned out to me in the first episode which accurately reflects his mood and description in A Feast for Crows IMO....

He does look like Joff in some ways. While they made up that scene between Joffrey and him regarding the wedding and the Kingsguard I thought it was a little overdone with the insults Joffrey hurled at Jaime. Boy is just wrong....

I do think Cersei would be very distant towards him even without the hand situation. I just think it makes it worse. At the end of the Cersei is not a rational person (don't know how much you've read about the theories surrounding the Lannister Twins but there is one in particular that is QUITE interesting to me and if true explains A LOT about those two....)

That being said Cersei felt completely abandoned by Jaime and given the monster that is her son and the complete lack of respect from Lord Tywin I'm not surprised to see her lashing out.

[DRW50]

What is the theory? If you'd rather PM it that's fine.