It's nice to know that once again, the viewer gets the blame for the failure or a TV format. They somehow put down most of the talk show hosts, but also put down viewers for not sticking with the hosts they disdain.

No, I don't think it's a condemnation at all.

It's a matter-of-fact: people just having a zillion choices and being not really all that interested in any of them.

I also didn't see them putting down viewers. If anything, their thiking follows a straight line: hosts are dull, thus people are switching channels.

The "attention span of a hummingbird" seemed like a putdown to me.

I don't think that people fleeing late night talk shows is the problem. I actually think viewers have been relatively patient, considering some of the poor quality of that genre over the past 15 years.

I have no skin in the Leno/Conan game although I think Conan is being screwed(I've always preferred Letterman more in the early days on NBC) but this is a classic. I give Letterman props for this. NBC is looking to launch another L&O aren't they?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msC3uu4KZbg

Edited January 13, 201015 yr by JaneAusten

so the question i have is this... morning tv is dying. daytime is dying. evening is dying. primetime is dying. late night is dying? or, is it just network tv that is dying?

It's "free" (advertiser-supported) TV that relies on HUGE numbers of eyeballs to make it profitable without subscriber fees and access to spinoff revenues (e.g., if you buy the show--don't own the show).

This'll all be fixed when (as Fox began to claw with Time-Warner over the holidays) the networks begin to lose the affiliates (the most retrogressive, outdated, horrible distribution system known to man...every affiliate gets a "voice" that detracts from the relationship between the audience and the network), and become (like TBS and USANetwork, etc.) a subscriber-subsidized service that also runs ads. When that happens, the tyranny of the "largest number of eyeballs" goes away...voters vote with their cable/satellite subscriptions, rather than their (often poorly sampled) "ratings".

There is still jeopardy. The big cable networks do fine, but the majority seem to struggle for viewers (hence, the constant shifts in brand identity--Cartoon Network not showing cartoons, TVLand not showing classic TV, Soapnet not showing soaps)...so it remains essential to stay one of the "big few" that show premium content.

They also need to figure out how to plug the hole of online streaming, bittorrenting, etc. Maybe said better: Find a way to effectively monetize them while not cannibalizing the mothership.

They also need to figure out how to plug the hole of online streaming, bittorrenting, etc. Maybe said better: Find a way to effectively monetize them while not cannibalizing the mothership.

I don't know if they "cannibalize" the mothership. The networks and the showrunners do that. Tim Kring has done more to "cannibalize" Heroes than fans ever could.

My guess is they are a very small fraction of viewers. I would also guess many of them watch online because they can't watch the TV version, for one reason or another. And I think some of these people, at least the ones who watch the online streaming on the official websites, and some of those who watch through torrents, might still buy DVDs and things like that. If they are cut off that way, they are less likely to buy anything related to the show.

I think these types of viewers are just a scapegoat for the real lack of quality and the desperate need to cater to viewers who aren't interested in watching a lot of TV. Ratings for shows can go up, and often do, when the show makes an effort to improve, as long as it's done in time. Or ratings for a new, quality show can be good, at least some of the time.

There is still jeopardy. The big cable networks do fine, but the majority seem to struggle for viewers (hence, the constant shifts in brand identity--Cartoon Network not showing cartoons, TVLand not showing classic TV, Soapnet not showing soaps)...so it remains essential to stay one of the "big few" that show premium content.

These networks struggle in part because they are so generic. Lifetime lost most of what people wanted to see on their network and thus they are falling fast. Soapnet still struggles to break even because all they can come up with is D-list knockoffs of reality shows that don't even get a million viewers. Yet this is seen as great because it does better than soap reruns from decades ago. They're also half-assed. If they had guts and just changed their network names, like TNN did when it became Spike, they would be better off in the long run.

Edited January 13, 201015 yr by CarlD2

I have no skin in the Leno/Conan game although I think Conan is being screwed(I've always preferred Letterman more in the early days on NBC) but this is a classic. I give Letterman props for this. NBC is looking to launch another L&O aren't they?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msC3uu4KZbg

Oh this was great, Jane! Great!

And Jay Leno's quip about Letterman was so tacky and unnecessary. But typical, considering he's such a greedy, arrogant pig.

The "attention span of a hummingbird" seemed like a putdown to me.

No. They didn't say Carl D., you're a stupid id!ot with the attention span of a hummingbird. They said people are flooded with TV-viewing choices, tonnes of job-related issues and problems in real life. All that considered, people today don't really have patience for a lot of stuff on TV. Especially when it's bad.

Oh this was great, Jane! Great!

And Jay Leno's quip about Letterman was so tacky and unnecessary. But typical, considering he's such a greedy, arrogant pig.

LOL at that clip! But...

I really wonder what will happen with Letterman's ratings if Jay Leno gets The Tonight Show back.

From Nikki Finke:

I've learned about a meeting that began at 1:45 PM at NBC Universal about The Conan War: On one side of the room -- NBCU bigwigs Jeff Gaspin and Marc Graboff. On the other -- O'Brien's reps: manager Gavin Palone, WME agent and board member Rick Rosen, and the newest member of Team O'Brien, Hollywood litigator Patty Glaser, who was hired on Sunday and is WME's legal shark of choice. I wouldn't want to be Gaspin or Graboff right now: Gavin can be as mean as a rabid dog, Rick's agency reps 60% of the TV talent, and Glaser is a pitbull. This is bloodsport. I've learned both NBCU chief Jeff Zucker as well as Gaspin were told that, before it went out, Conan was publicly making that statement (see below). My insiders say O'Brien's reps didn't want him to do it. "They were not thrilled. They told him it would undercut his negotiating leverage," one source revealed to me. "But Conan wouldn't listen to them. He wanted to make it." When Conan read the statement to the staff, "he broke up. He began to cry," one of my insiders reveals. "Because for 17 years he was working towards The Tonight Show, and now he says he's prepared to walk away from it. That's an amazing thing. An amazing thing. But he takes very seriously the fact that The Tonight Show baton was passed to him."

Meanwhile, Hollywood creatives are already starting to show support for Conan against NBC. At the Television Critics Association confab, near the end of the session with ABC TV showrunners, TV showrunners Steve Levitan (Modern Family) and Bill Lawrence (Cougar Town) said almost in unison: "Hey, did you guys read Conan's letter?" Lawrence added: "I love it. Man, it was just ballsy. It's just the way I hoped it would be."

IMO this and NBC actions with LateNight over the past so many years has now damaged the Tonight Show franchise/brand almost beyond repair. Can they get it back? It's been such a clusterfeck. I'm not sure how much that brand even meant anymore with Carson gone.

What was impressive about Conan's statement was he really didn't make it about him. He showed respect maybe not to NBC(they don't deserve it) but to the legacy Carson left with the Tonight Show. That's something not one person at NBC or Leno have mentioned at all. I wonder if anyone at NBC or Leno even get it or even care. It exemplifies almost an era gone past.

Edited January 13, 201015 yr by JaneAusten

http://www.observer.com/2010/media/bright-spot-leno-debacle-failure-nbcs-cynical-strategy

Speaking from experience, General Electric is a terrible company to work for. This all sounds like a Jack Welch business practice.

LOL at that clip! But...

I really wonder what will happen with Letterman's ratings if Jay Leno gets The Tonight Show back.

If the negative publicity continues, David Letterman will continue to beat The Tonight Show.

Conan Tonight(per TWoP and other sources): "Hosting “The Tonight Show” has been the fulfillment of a lifelong dream for me – and I just want to say to the kids out there watching: You can do anything you want in life. Unless Jay Leno wants to do it too."

I was reading a Reuters article and it seems like we're already getting the media spin about how this will all turn out to be a success for NBC.

No matter what happens with the ratings, it was all so pointless and so ugly playing out in the public eye.