AMC/OLTL an early 1970 Crossover?

[EricMontreal22]

Like I said in the thread about Agnes Nixon's website, I finally got the vintage episodes to play all the way through. I thought I knew about all the major and minor crossovers within Agnes Nixon's soaps (the OLTL and AMC Trivia Books both list a lot) but how surprised was I with episode 41 on her site, in the third segment to see Eileen Riley Siegel enter the scene. At first, because I didn't recognize the more ethnic Grandma Kate who answered the door (I'm not sure if this was the first or second Kate before they settled on a third) I thought somehow they had included a kinescope of a scene from One Life to Live as well. But sure enough Eileen's mom was apparently great friends with Kate, and she and came "across the river" (the two cities must have been much closer back then) with her husband and decided to drop by. For some reason I love how Agnes' soaps (and GH of course) all co existed in their own universe--fun to find another example early on.

One oddity--isn't Kate, Joe's mother? In the episode he calls her Kate, did he always? Or was he his dead wife's mother?

[Paul Raven]

Well,she was Kate Martin,so obviously Joe and Paul's mother.Christine Thomas and Kate Harrington both played Kate in 1970.I wonder how long each lasted?

Didn't the first actress to play Ann last only a few days?

So many story points like the OLTL/AMC crossover would be lost forever without these old eps coming to light,when even reliable references don't list them.

Was there any reason for her visit?Did it perhaps deal with a OLTL story at that time,even in passing?

[EricMontreal22]

Still I never thought about it before but Joe always called her by her first name didn't he?

Eileen mentioned that David was in town to update his will or something, but didn't seem too serious about it--and then Tara said to tell her kids, the twins (Tim and... Kathy?) that she'd see them soon, or call about going to a movie. But the gist of it really was for Joe to have a talk with Eileen where it became clear how interested in the married Ruth Brent he was becoming, so it didn't have much to do with any story on OLTL I could see. Weren't there a few crossovers like this in the 70s though--very casual? (I remember in some clips, maybe early 80s when Erica was on the run as a nun I think she even stayed in Llanview though I'm not sure if any characters crossed over). This would have still been in AMC's second month I believe--maybe Agnes just needed a sympathetic character who might know the Martins, and could serve as a listener and she didn't have someone already on AMC to do that so used one of her fave OLTL characters?

Anyway the way Eileen talked, also about growing up not too far from Amy and Ruth, made it sound like originally Llanview and Pine Valley were more just suburbs of the same city than seperate cities...

who knows--it's doubly interesting for me as someone obsessed with the history of both those shows to see an OLTL character so early on in that show's run--since I don't think I've seen *any* clips except that 1969 episode of anyone on the show pre the 1976 birth of Kevin episode that aired on Daytime to Remember. (whereas, while I've not tracked down any mid 70s AMC episodes earlier than that great 1978 Erica/Tom wedding episode, we now have 5 whole B&W kinescope episodes from 1970 and into, I think early 1971 dealing almost entirely with the original Phil's parentage storyline thanks to the one Daytime to Remember episode, the two I Love Lucci marathon eps, and the two on Agnes site)

[DRW50]

This might have just been a way to try to remind OLTL viewers to watch AMC. When Richer for Poorer/Lovers and Friends started, I think they had Rachel and Mac cross over, so soaps did that sometimes back then.

[EricMontreal22]

Right and Steve Hardy actually appeared on OLTL in its first year (even though they filmed on different coasts) for the same reason. Still the thing is, would an OLTL watcher (which aired some hours I believe LATER than AMC) know to randomly turn on AMC, and only in the middle of the episode (Eileen's not in the tease) to see her--I guess maybe it was mentioned on OLTL the day before "let's go down to visit the Martins in pine Valley" though a new viewer prob wouldn't know what Pine Valley was anyway...

[All My Shadows]

I'm really wondering how many kinescopes they have out there. In the 20th anniversary episode, we see lots dealing with Chuck and Tara's wedding (where Nick objects and Chuck collapses), which was in 1971.

Now that I think about it, that wedding stuff could very well be from those UCLA Archives that we were talking about a few months ago. If that's the visual/audio quality of the 1971/1973 daytime stuff that they have, then uh...yeah, there's no reason why that isn't available online or on DVD or something! All I would need to see is AMC recaps/previews/summaries from the year to determine if the Chuck/Tara wedding was in the spring.

[SFK]

Eric, there may have very well been a v.o. promo at the end of the previous day's OLTL, you know, "And be sure to catch OLTL's Eileen visit her old pals on All My Children, tomorrow at 12:30pm, 1:30 central" or something like that, little things to boost/secure viewership early in the show's run. I know it was a much bigger crossover event, but I've heard on WoST a promo for Mike and Hope Bauer when they moved from GL to AW (both P&G, but different networks).

You know, I've never gotten the impression that distance has been created between Pine Valley and Llanview over the years (of course I wasn't around in the early '70s). Sure, they have both become more metropolitan, but there have been enough passing references to neighboring towns (Corinth included) and crossovers like Dorian visitng Adam and Dorian and Mary obviously knowing one another that gave me that impression.

I'd use real-life examples but you'd probably be unfamiliar with them, but I've always sensed that Llanview was more urban-suburban than Pine Valley. On AMC, they referenced Center City (Philly) when a character had to go off and do something sketchy, but Llanview seemed to have its own dicey hoods.

[LoyaltoAMC]

Wow, Eric, I had no idea about that early crossover from OLTL to AMC. I guess it would make sense that the Siegels and the Martins could've been friends, since the Martins were the economic-status equivalent of the Siegels. The only OLTL-to-AMC crossovers most of us are familiar with are the baby switch crossover from a few years ago (though that was a back and forth crossover) and when Nora came to Pine Valley to give legal advice to Liza in the mid/late 90s. And of course there's the AMC-to-OLTL crossover when Paul Martin defended Viki in the Marco Dane murder trial in the late 70s. It's very interesting to see how Agnes subliminally tied these two towns together. I think they tried to do the same sort of thing with AMC and Loving with Loving's acquisition of Angie and Frankie and then with the Carter Jones crossover in the early/mid 90s.

[Scotty]

You are correct Carl. And, per the OLTL 40th anniversary book, Michael Storm also took Dr. Larry Wolek over to Pine Valley in 1970 for the very same reason.

[SFK]

Anyone notice how some of the music cues in this episode have traces of OLTL's original opening theme?

[EricMontreal22]

Yeah actually, those kinescopes (from the wedding) are the only ones, off the top of my head, that we do see clips of that aren't from the five episodes I mentioned. Otherwise, sadly,all the B&W kinescope footage from clips shows that I can remember has been from the 5 episodes I mentioned that most of us freaks fans have seen. Surely there's something else, at least from pre that 1978 wedding episode since they started saving eps a bit before, but probably another kinescope or two.

I think kinescopes are good enough quality to get on DVD--I have the 2 from the Lucci marathon on a burned DVD and they look fine. Again, the fact that they can't just plop these episodes on a special fans collector DVD (which could be done so cheaply and would make some sort of profit) is beyond me. Agnes did mention last year when she announced her website that she did have plans for DVDs so at least shge is aware theres some demand, I think...

[EricMontreal22]

You're right--I totally forgot about those prevalent voice overs back then.

And it was Agnes who did the Mike and Hope crossover (which lasted for severeal years--she stayed at Another World almost a year past OLTL's premier, writing both shows and I'm pretty sure Mike stayed through to the 70s) so Agnes clearly liked the idea of using characters from other soaps but the same soap "world" from an early stage. That cross over always interested me because Irna wanted AW to be an ATWT spin off but the different networks wouldn't allow it--I guesseither P&G pressud them to allow the GL/AW one or snuck it by them(I'd love to see that promo!) Of course it made sense for Agnes too since she had been headwriter for GL and apparently was fond of the characters (she actually wrote both GL and AW for a year or so together too I believe, though GL was still 15 mins).

I have to admit cross overs are almost a fetish for me, LOL--I only ever watched my second soap as a kid obsessed with AMC because of its crossover--Loving (first I watched briefly when Jeremy and Ciara were there in Fall 91 and then in 92 I believe I watched the whole week long Carter Jones cross over which led me to become a permanent fan of Loving (watching the ratings I seem to be the only one who kept with it from AMC lol). I was 12 but I did tape the full week--but unlike most of my old soap tapes I seem to have lost it, and I have never been able to find ANYTHING of the John Wesley Shipp/Carter storyline from AMC *or* Loving online though WOST.org did have a Loving episode I saved on CD-ROM which had a brief scene of Jeremy and Trevor taking Carter down at Pins, maybe now that WOST is gone it'd be ok for me to put it on youtube. Around the same time I got into OLTL partly because I knew it was another soap set, even with the crazy Rauch years, in "Agnes' universe" and I loved the brief crossovers like Jeremy helping save a painting, or even the mention that the Lord Manor, Chandler Estate and Alden Mansion in Corinth all were done by the same architect. Or Tad going to Llanview with his talk show. On the other hand most of the whole Rae/Linda Dano endless crossover was a wash for me and I was somewhat mixed with the baby switch (though I liked a lot of it, it just went on too long).

I thought Center City was another fictional city Agnes used as "the big city that wasn't Philly or New york" in all her shows--but actually it would make sense if it was Philly, hrmm... I wonder if we'll ever know for sure without asking her (maybe I should post on her blog--such an importat question ) I still stick by the theory it's a different city though obviously could be interpreted as Philly--they never have called it Philly. I know sometimes they've called it C City though some have said Sea City which made me wonder if it was the same thing or just misheard. OLTL has used Center City too as has Loving but both probably not as often as AMC (which still mentions it fairly often though the last major one I remember was lawyer Kenny Adler telling Simone he grew up there).

Are both Pine Valley and Llanview (and Corinth?) meant to be on the "main line"? I dunno, I do agree that even now Llanview was always more urban than Pine Valley (or Corinth which always seemed meant to be a university based version of what Pine Valley was pre the rich 80s) but in the early eps I do get the feeling the cities, particularly Pine Valley were meant to be more suburbs or something--not full on Cities, though obviously this hasn't been consistant. It's only recently AMC has started to have some dicier neighbourhoods (though the Pine Cone has been around since the late 70s I believe when Billy Clyde was a pimp) though nothing like Llanview's docks, etc.

Right, Waggert remembered that crossover for the book but this Eileen one seemed to have been forgotten (he remembered a lot more AMC/OLTL crossovers, like Paul Martin going back to OLTL in the early 80s when he was off AMC, that weren't in the earlier AMC trivia book he did ten years or so ago)

[EricMontreal22]

Yeah I have to say I really like it. It gives a sense of a greater world (almost like how in comics you have the "DC Universe" where most of their titles all sorta co exist, the same with Marvel and certain authors, like Stephen King do the same) and for geeks like me rewards obsessive watching of all lol. Of course with different people at diff shows problems happen--one obvious but unimportant on is AMC STILL uses as their fave tabloid the National Intruder, which is the paper I believe Dorian created in the 80s that Manning turned into the Sun.

If we aren't getting DVDs it'd be great if they could post more early AMC and OLTL (and even Loving) on Agnes' site.

[Scotty]

And don't forget that dreaded crossover several years back with Linda Dano and Robin Christopher...which also included GH and Port Charles.

[EricMontreal22]

GH was so cartoony in the 80s (even by OLTL 80s standards) and then PC got so out there I find them harder to link with the shows--and partly cuz Agnes didn't work on them and I've never been a fan. But yeah from the early Steve Hardy 1969 OLT appearance there has been crossover too--Anna on AMC being one of the bigger ones, though of course Marco Dane resurfaced years after OLTL in GH, and Faison from Gh was a villain briefly on Loving.