I had a working mom (well she worked partime) and her parents never watched soaps either so I guess there was no gateway for me--in fact my mom didn't even grow up with a tv so never had the habit. Actually I was an obnoxious overly serious little kid (please no comments about some things not changing) and I rememeber thinking that soaps must be AWFUL. Then my twin sis started hanging out with a new friend who would watch AMC with HER mother, and so during a winter break it started being on when I was home and I remember (I was all of 10 or 11) mocking my sister for watching it, but when school went back in session she easily stopped watching and I started taping and watching it. LOL--eventually my mom started following it too with me, but oddly I was the one who got her into it (she still watches AMC off and on--and she admitted when she was pregnant with my older brother and was too tired to do anything but watch her new tv while feeding him she got hooked on Edge of Night which was in the late afternoon at feeding time)

I think my parents and their group of friends were kinda a group that woulda been snobby about watching soaps--although I recently found out one of my mom's wealthiest and most quasi intellectual friends (she is an English prof at a big university in Canada and has published a number of novels successfully) is and has been all her life a MASSIVE closet soap fan--the CBS shows.

Jlll was a consultant for ABC Daytime from the time she left AW to the time she took over OLTL in December 1997. Before she took over OLTL, there were reports that ABC wanted her to EP AMC.

Well, at least w/ JFP as EP, Julia Barr (Brooke) would have received a send-off. Granted, it would've been either a murder or a tragic car accident, but a send-off nonetheless.

Kobe was also very old by the time she took over GL, she might not have wanted to work as hard after that at her age.

Yeah, that's what I said about John Conboy. Before he took over GL. ;-)

That kinda story is IDEAL to tell on a soap--so why not?

Because, it was yet one more history rewrite for a split personality whose "origins" had already been rewritten and re-rewritten more times than I could count.

So now, the cause of Viki's personality splitting into "Viki" and "Niki" (as well as several others we didn't know existed until Michael Malone thought of them) was due to being molested as a little girl by her father, Victor. Not the fact that she saw Victor push her mother, Eugenia, down the stairs as a little girl. Or that she walked in on Victor with her best friend, Irene Manning, in bed when she was a teenager. Or that she thought she saw her lover, Roger Gordon, die in an explosion at the entrance to Eterna and couldn't handle it. But, you know what? Give 'em a moment, and OLTL will think of ANOTHER Reason Behind It All.

It's just preposterous.

It was quite odd because I remember some people enjoyed the Bianca/Leo friendship so much and talked about how if she would be with any man, it would be him, and imagine Greenlee's fury, and so on. Then a variation of that happened, but with Laura.

If you ask me, Laura's about-face where her obsession w/ Leo was concerned smacked of interference. Like, as Vee intimated above, they wanted to go w/ Bianca and Laura as a lesbian couple (which, if you ask me, would've been dynamite material for Erica and Brooke), but someone - either ABCD, or someone in charge @ AMC, or even, perhaps, someone involved in the story? - nixed it.

Good thing McTavish is no longer referred to as The Writer!

I think to be referred to as "The Writer," you actually need to have written, and not just conjured up some crazy ish while ingesting questionable substances.

[Kathy Griffin]Allegedly![/Kathy Griffin]

I know you grew up with soaps, like me [...] but if you don't mind me asking, how old are you? I thought you were maybe just a bit older than me--but you talk about the day to day storytelling being important and how much you loved early 80s AMC and OLTL so I assume I was wrong...

I'm thirty. Thanks for asking.

I'm with you, R Sinclair. My mother was my "gateway" into soaps, too. I still remember all the ish she and I would watch everyday when I was three. That was when I first fell in love with GUIDING LIGHT, on account of the crazy, crazy Quint & Nola romance, which remains my favorite such storyline to this day.

Before Sylph gives me heck about this, though -- yes, I DO remember AMC and GL and OLTL and other shows from that far back. I also remember watching "Sesame Street", too. Don't believe me? That's your problem.

Whew! Khan you took a bullet for me. I was dreading being the "six hundred and sixty-sixth" post in this thread! LMAO!

I'm so cute!

Edited December 12, 200916 yr by R Sinclair

Because, it was yet one more history rewrite for a split personality whose "origins" had already been rewritten and re-rewritten more times than I could count.

So now, the cause of Viki's personality splitting into "Viki" and "Niki" (as well as several others we didn't know existed until Michael Malone thought of them) was due to being molested as a little girl by her father, Victor. Not the fact that she saw Victor push her mother, Eugenia, down the stairs as a little girl. Or that she walked in on Victor with her best friend, Irene Manning, in bed when she was a teenager. Or that she thought she saw her lover, Roger Gordon, die in an explosion at the entrance to Eterna and couldn't handle it. But, you know what? Give 'em a moment, and OLTL will think of ANOTHER Reason Behind It All.

It's just preposterous.

LOL it's less preposterous than the earlier explanations though I do feel they shoulda ended it there (don't get me started about Tess--ugh I guess if AMC has a legacy of rape OLTL's is of DID?) The multiple multiples was also based on a fact that wasn't addressed before that it's very rare to just have one multiple personality. But I do get your probs with it

From Wikipedia, an older version of the article:

In early 1998, Emmy-winning All My Children writer Lorraine Broderick was brought in to write As the World Turns, returning the program to its traditional character-based storytelling and replacing the shallow and simplistic writing of the mid-1990s with more complex storytelling and (as MADD termed it) "operatic" approach to drama. Unfortunately, although the writing and production values had improved to a moderate degree, the problem of endless focus on new characters continued to irritate fans. Elizabeth Hubbard (longtime fan favorite Lucinda Walsh) left the show due to her anger when her character married villain (and archenemy) James Stenbeck. Many of the episodes were handed to new teen characters such as Eddie (Nathaniel Marston) and Lucinda's newfound niece Georgia (Jaime Nicole Dudney), or SORAS victims Katie Peretti and Chris Hughes. Chris would go on to be recast nearly a half-dozen times in only five years, with no real luck. Another storyline revolved around vixen Emily Stewart (played since 1992 by Kelley Menighan Hensley) breaking up the longtime staid marriage of Tom and Margo Hughes. Emily was wrongly convinced that Margo had been sleeping with hunky teenage ward Eddie and was even carrying his baby. When Margo miscarried (the child was actually Tom's), Emily convinced Tom that Margo had tried to have an abortion. After sleeping together, Tom then had to deal with Emily carrying his child (Daniel) while at the same time Margo was dating Eddie's long-lost father Alec (Michael Woods). She then became a suspect in Alec's murder until his ghost led her to the real killer (Georgia, Eddie's girlfriend; Eddie and Georgia married and left town in January 2000). Margo and Tom had a double wedding with Eddie/Georgia (although Margo got to push Emily face first into the wedding cake made by Lisa), but had few storylines afterwards.

Popular newcomer Daniel Markel, who played Stenbeck's son David Allen, was fired and then several months later the role was recast (with actor Keith Colouris) via explanation of plastic surgery. David then posed as a psychiatrist and caused one heroine, Julia (Annie Parisse), to become hooked on pills and steal another heroine's baby. Almost every storyline on the show revolved around Colouris' character, and when Colouris was fired, he blamed the fans for his departure. Another sign of the aimless nature of the series was the popular vixen Carly Tenney's (Maura West) attempts to keep the money she inherited from her sister Rosanna (Yvonne Perry) due to an agreement between the two that Carly would be given $1 million if she were married to and have a child by any man other than Mike Kasnoff. In the space of a year, Carly was married to three different men, all while pining away for her true love, Holden's cousin Jack Snyder (Michael Park). The storyline didn't make sense, ignoring the term of the agreement that Carly's marriage had to last a year, and suddenly introducing a new term to the agreement: Carly had to give birth before January 1, 1999. In the end, in fact, later writers revealed that none of Carly's three marriages were valid, since she'd been married the whole time to Winston Lowe, a crimelord in Hong Kong who'd blackmailed her three years earlier into a wedding she hadn't thought to be valid at the time!

Many storylines under the tenure of Broderick revolved around former stripper Denise Maynard (Cassandra Creech.) Although Denise had behaved in a rude manner (such as greeting a mixed-race woman at the door with a sneering, "hi, yellow!", a slur against biracials) and done horrible things such as selling her baby (to David Allen, who then switched it with Lily's baby, Faith--whom he proceeded to raise as his own) her praises were sung by almost all of Oakdale. The father of Denise's baby turned out to be Andy Dixon, which at least gave more attention to veteran characters such as Kim and John. After Lily gave Denise back her baby (after she'd been raised by Lily and Holden for a year!), she and Andy proceeded to marry so the child would not be taken by social services (even more confusing to viewers was that after Denise reclaimed her child, the baby was recast with a darker-skinned infant, leading many to wonder why Lily and Holden never noticed the baby's race). Andy, with help of his ne'er-do-well father John, then faked paralysis in order to make the marriage last. Those who disliked the story cited the huge amount of conveniences and manipulative writing, while those who liked it cited its large emotional ramifications and excellent use of As The World Turns' veteran actors. Many fans in the predominantly female viewing audience could not forgive Denise for selling her baby, no matter what the circumstances. Denise and Andy were written out in the 2000-2001 season, amid rumors that Scott DeFrietas (Andy) would never return to the program because of a CBS Daytime executive (Lucy Johnson) who felt he was not "hunky" enough. Johnson left CBS in 2003, but Andy has yet to reemerge on the Oakdale canvas.

Another central character in the late 90's was Molly Conlan (Lesli Kay). Molly and Lily met in prison and Lily let her new friend move into her estate, Fairwinds. Molly reacquainted herself with Lily's then-fiancee, Holden (they would later remarry), with whom (in yet another history rewrite) Molly had had a child at age 16. Molly quickly began stalking Holden and became enormously unpopular with the audience, so much so that viewers were baffled when As The World Turns made her Carly's cousin and pushed her into a romance with David Stenbeck. Many viewers felt the producers were shoving Molly down their throats for no apparent reason. Her further romances included Andy Dixon and then another romp with post-plastic surgery David Stenbeck. Her sex scenes with the new David (Keith Colouris) were considered racy by the relatively tame As The World Turns standards, with many viewers atwitter over Kay's past in soft-core pornographic films as well as rumors that Colouris and Kay's scenes were so "real" because they had begun a real-life affair in spite of being married to other people (they divorced their respective spouses in 1999, had a child in 2000 and married in 2003). While Colouris was fired when new producers arrived, yet again Molly was spared the axe, this time starting an affair with Andy's half-brother, Chris Hughes.

After NBC cancelled fellow Procter & Gamble Productions soap Another World in 1999, As the World Turns left its Manhattan studios and moved in to AW's former studios in Brooklyn. Another World stars Lisa Peluso (Lila), Stephen Schnetzer (Cass), Jensen Buchanan (Vicky) and Tom Eplin (Jake) guested on the show soon after AW's finale, but only Eplin stayed around (between 1999 and 2004 Ellen Wheeler (Marley), Anna Stuart (Donna), and Kim Rhodes (Cindy) also made guest appearances). Former Another World executive producer Christopher Goutman became ATWT's newest executive producer at this time and former Another World writer Leah Laiman became As the World Turns' newest head writer. Former Another World sets were also incorporated into As the World Turns, as well as characters from Another World. Some longtime As The World Turns fans were alienated by what seemed to be an effort to make As the World Turns into Another World (which is ironic considering that the latter show was originally created as a sister-show to As The World Turns, but was rejected by CBS in 1964 and then aired by NBC). A bright spot that pleased fans was the rehiring of Elizabeth Hubbard as "Lucinda Walsh", but she continued to have no real storyline.

In November 1999, a controversial storyline decision occurred when core Another World character Vicky Hudson (Jensen Buchanan) was killed in a airplane crash.

That's great--I know that ATWT fans weren't all that enamoured with her (or Behr?). The thing is, while AMC and ATWT are arguably each of their networks' most old fashioned/classical soaps, the shows still have very different tones and feels (one danger of the way soap writers are shuffled around ad nauseum--and for the most part this has been an issue going all the way back to the 50s--is the more that happens the more of that tone is lost). So on paper bringing FMB and LB over to ATWT prob looked golden... Still, it doesn't sound liek their stuff was so bad.

I'd love to read an interview with Broderick where she talks as in depth as Wisner has (but she probably wouldn't till she left AMC and decided she'd never work in soaps again)--because of the AMC stuff of course, but I think I'd be even more curious to hear how SHE viewed her time at ATWT--and even more so exactly how the cowriting OLTL with camptastic Chris Whitesall under even campier producer Gary Tomlin worked for her... (she did do baby switch stories on ATWT and OLTL it should be pointed out--and I suppose at AMC too with the Erica kidnapping)

The stories were not awful, but they were also impenetrable, and overwritten. There was no reason to have Carly marry so many men in one year -- the storyline was just ridiculous. They didn't seem to understand anything about her character. They seemed to need to make her so heavy in the money hungry role because they wanted to hype their big heroine, Julia, played by the weak actress Annie Parisse. There was no reason to get rid of Daniel Markel just for a dumb plastic surgery storyline, turned into a long, endless story where the new David Stenbeck, with killer abs, teen idol hair, and dead line deliveries, ran roughshod over Oakdale for a year. There was no reason to bring in so many new characters who had tenuous ties to Oakdale and shoehorn them into existing character storylines. There were too many actors who seemed to be hired because of a past association with ABC, not because of the right part (I like John Loprieno but he was an awful choice as Brad Snyder, and Ben Jorgensen was way off as Chris Hughes). There was no reason to completely trash Lyla Montgomery when they brought back her daughter Katie, rewriting Lyla as a neglectful mother who forced her daughter into child pageants. There was a real lack of proper tone in their stories. They made Denise much too unlikeable and viewers struggled to ever feel sorry for her later on. They turned Emily, who was supposed to be a complicated antiheroine, into this shrew. There were two stories going on at once about cold, controlling men under assumed identities who manipulated everyone around them. Couples in general at this time seemed to have revolving doors and it was difficult to invest in most of them.

There were some good ideas. Bringing Andy back. Maturing Lily. And they weren't hugely unpopular or anything -- they were fired because of demos.

I blame FMB, who was there without Broderick for over a year, more than Lorraine Broderick. FMB made many bad decisions, along with MADD, including not only firing a popular actress, Allyson Rice Taylor, but then Susan Batten, her replacement, basically going to the press and saying she had gotten the job because her friends from ABC had wanted to hire her. That's not getting into the whole mess of bad stories written in 1997, or, later on, the mishandling of Liz Hubbard, which caused her to quit and blast the show in the press.

For someone who was in the business for so long, FMB seemed to have no idea what to do with the press, not just here, but also with her being so hilariously frank about OLTL's poor state in that Logan interview.

Edited March 3, 201015 yr by CarlD2

I will say this about Broderick's ATWT, though it wasn't perfect. It was the fist time in quite a few years that the show had any real semblance of long-term plotting and consistent day to day writing.

I thought ATWT was MUCH WORSE when Leah Laiman took over from Broderick.

I will say this about Broderick's ATWT, though it wasn't perfect. It was the fist time in quite a few years that the show had any real semblance of long-term plotting and consistent day to day writing.

They had long term plotting in some stories but others I never quite knew what they were doing. 12 years later and I'm still waiting to find out where Kirk and Sam went.

Georgia summer 1998: I need to find out where my mother went. She's just gone!

Georgia six months later: Eddie. Eddie! Eddie? Eddie!!

Edited March 3, 201015 yr by CarlD2

When I think of how awful the show was during Black and Stern, Jessica Kleine, Leah Laiman, most of Sheffer's run, and now, this era doesn't seem too bad in comparison. I don't think it was as damaging as those eras, even with some ridiculous mistakes.

Edited March 3, 201015 yr by Y&RWorldTurner