re: Claire Labine

Labine's tenure at OLTL was also marked with characters who were too precious and cutesy. Didn't she write Crystal Chappell's character wanting to go to clown school? Mae would have fit in there as well. I don't think Labine ever got GL, but then neither did Rauch so they were a great combo (sigh). For that matter, was there a GL personality to get by that point?

The one thing she said in this interview (which I've read before) is that the focus groups are often used to justify what the producers or execs want to do. Why waste money to do something you've always decided? Never made sense to me.

Edited January 4Jan 4 by chrisml

33 minutes ago, chrisml said:

The one thing she said in this interview (which I've read before) is that the focus groups are often used to justify what the producers or execs want to do. Why waste money to do something you've always decided? Never made sense to me.

Of course it doesn't make sense. But, all these different networks & individuals, typically EPs misuse focus groups & may also misuse other things that should be valuable tools & this has been going on literally for many years. 

I was at a Popular Culture con in New Orleans in April 2002 & I met a Sociologist/Statistician who ran research for NBC & he told what I would call horror stories where, for example, they'd show head shots, ordinary B&W pictures & ask these "panel members" what did they think about this couple? Etc. Well, you can't tell anything from b&w head shots!! That's stupid.

@SoapDope That's a wonderful find! I sometimes go through that channel but had never seen any soap content, beyond a brief Emmerdale Farm commercial. It's so unnerving seeing Robin as Hope for some reason. I'm very used to seeing her as villains or troubled women.

2 hours ago, P.J. said:

I never really realized how much Elvera and Robin look alike.

Do we know which writers turned down the GL job, necessitating more Labine? I'm not impressed by Labine's work, and the stories she liked having written aren't an argument in her favor. I realize she had to work with the actors who were there, but the entire San Cristohell gang were duds, imo. 

I will never understand why execs don't understand that the audience has invested a lot of time in a show's vets, and build on that. No, I wouldn't have wanted to see a Billy/Holly/Buzz triangle, but if the audience is reacting to actors who know how to freakin' act, as opposed to a bunch of wooden mannequins not even in Springfield.

I can't say I'm impressed by any of it either. I suppose I could credit her for trying to make San Cristobel more dynamic via civil war and higher stakes (Reva being blinded and Cassie losing her baby), and roping in Beth as Edmund's partner, but I just found most of the story uninvolving and repulsive (mainly Cassie losing her baby, especially as she was fairly far into her pregnancy). The show also would not commit to Beth actually being a bad person, so part of it was about "saving" her from Edmund, which I did not care about. DAM in general was much more appealing to me than what they often tried to do with Edmund, which is probably one of the reasons he stayed around off and on for a decade. 

I think San Cristobel stayed on as long as it did in part because it was entirely Rauch's creation and as shown on OLTL he enjoyed going to far-off made-up lands (with occasional location shoots), and in part because P&G/CBS/GL were likely tapping into a princess fantasy and a magical kingdom fantasy. 

I actually liked the Richard/Cassie pairing, and even I had had enough of San Cristobel by this point. (and of course the racial dynamics of the place, where the only time you saw black characters was as extras yet this colonialism and classism was never mentioned aside from moments like Cassie selling her crown to help the people, make me cringe).

57 minutes ago, chrisml said:

re: Claire Labine

Labine's tenure at OLTL was also marked with characters who were too precious and cutesy. Didn't she write Crystal Chappell's character wanting to go to clown school? Mae would have fit in there as well. I don't think Labine ever got GL, but then neither did Rauch so they were a great combo (sigh). For that matter, was there a GL personality to get by that point?

Claire Labine was a wonderful writer, but I don't connect with most of her OLTL or GL runs. I found both extremely alienating, to be honest. Admittedly neither show was in good health before she arrived, so she had no Wendy Riche to be an effective partner.

I agree that there was probably no one, although I liked some of what Jill Lorie Hurst did in GL's last year. I would also say Lorraine Broderick, possibly - I didn't love her ATWT work but she had history with GL and did manage some strong moments at her soaps even with clear network and producer interference. 

3 hours ago, Alan said:

From the interview it seems obvious that Labine was not willing to learn a new show. I believe it was Gold who introduced the Alonzo character as the real heir to the San Cristobel throne and finally ended the island story. IIRC the transition from Labine to Gold was marked by Philip, Richard, and Noah in matching camo tanktops rescuing Beth from the castle.

I remember that - they should have just left Beth...

I assume it was dropping ratings that finally ended San Cristobel. Either that or Bradley Cole announcing his exit (or had he only left because they ended SC?).

In that interview, Labine wanted to sort of wash her hands of a lot of the criticism of her tenure at GL, but in that interview, she doubles down on the parts of OLTL that people also hated (talking parrot, Elizabeth Rohm who was loathed, etc.).  I'm not sure she is reliable on anything related to those two shows. On GL, several of the actors (D'Arbanville comes to mind as being the most vocal) blamed Labine in particular for the problems with the storylines. 

I'm trying to get the timeline right in my head. When was Zaslow fired by the network? Who was writing the show at the time? Was it Gold with Rauch the EP? 

36 minutes ago, chrisml said:

I'm trying to get the timeline right in my head. When was Zaslow fired by the network? Who was writing the show at the time? Was it Gold with Rauch the EP? 

That happened when Rauch just started and when they had an interim team (Victor Miller, Michael Conforti, Nancy Williams Watt). 

A few things. 

I think Labine very likely was interested in the show & attempted to learn it. I don't think her problems were in that vein. Instead I think her problems were those of clashing, conflict, etc. I know that some things she pitched were shot down. 

I think GL was wrong trying to have the town of Springfield & its residents and the Santos mob family and the island principality. 

I agree that the show was trying to tell a princess storyline. Just look at the Cassie/Richard wedding & it's right there to see. 

Who were these other writers that Paul or MADD could not get to come to work for them? Fascinatingly enough, it seems no one knows! I have always been suspicious of no one knowing any tea. 

I could go into so many criticisms of Rauch and of MADD. Not so of Labine but only because she had so little power or agency, so a very different kind of animal. 

Oh, yeah, at OLTL Labine did write Crystal's Maggie as some kind of a clown thing. 

The only conclusions I could see is that these people simply did not work together, didn't mesh, didn't gel. I think of cognitive dissonance when I think of this wreck. 

 

25 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

That happened when Rauch just started and when they had an interim team (Victor Miller, Michael Conforti, Nancy Williams Watt). 

And, when it comes to the situation with Zas, we cannot forget MADD's "contribution."

4 minutes ago, Contessa Donatella said:

And, when it comes to the situation with Zas, we cannot forget MADD's "contribution."

I'd definitely put most of the blame on her. 

1 minute ago, DRW50 said:

I'd definitely put most of the blame on her. 

Well, the thing is we don't know who made the actual decision. It may have been above both Rauch & MADD's heads. But, what she said, even if it were out of her hands what had been decided, I mean, just thinking of it now, it is so egregious, appalling, disgusting and unforgivable, that her part in it stands out. 

16 minutes ago, Contessa Donatella said:

And, when it comes to the situation with Zas, we cannot forget MADD's "contribution."

 

11 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

I'd definitely put most of the blame on her. 

I say blame Les Moonves, Mary Alice Dwyer-Dobbin, and Paul Rauch.

When I saw MZ daughter on The Locher Room, I got the impression she wanted to call out those three and put them on blast but she held herself back.

4 minutes ago, kalbir said:

I say blame Les Moonves, Mary Alice Dwyer-Dobbin, and Paul Rauch.

When I saw MZ daughter on The Locher Room, I got the impression she wanted to call out those three and put them on blast but she held herself back.

I know it's too easy for me to just blame MADD, especially with Rauch's history, but she decided to make herself the face in one of the most heinous ways possible, so it's hard for me to separate. I agree they both had a hand, especially heartless Moonves.

Edited January 5Jan 5 by DRW50

4 minutes ago, kalbir said:

I say blame Les Moonves, Mary Alice Dwyer-Dobbin, and Paul Rauch.

When I saw MZ daughter on The Locher Room, I got the impression she wanted to call out those three and put them on blast but she held herself back.

What a triumvirate!!!! I could never, and would never, disagree with this assessment.

What MADD felt free to say in a nationwide magazine was so despicable that you have to wonder what she didn't say and what was being said behind closed doors. It's one of the cruelest things I can remember being done on to an actor. MADD seemed to revel in the cruelty as well. When JFP comes out of a situation as one of the more compassionate ones, you know you're dealing with some sociopaths. 

 

 

 

 

Michael's last episode as Roger aired around April 23, 1997. Brown and Esensten were head writers at that point; their first head writing credit aired on March 31, 1997.

12 minutes ago, chrisml said:

What MADD felt free to say in a nationwide magazine was so despicable that you have to wonder what she didn't say and what was being said behind closed doors. It's one of the cruelest things I can remember being done on to an actor. MADD seemed to revel in the cruelty as well. When JFP comes out of a situation as one of the more compassionate ones, you know you're dealing with some sociopaths. 

The EVIL thing she said was not in an interview. She didn't say it for publication. She just said it right there in front of the assembled parties. In front of God & everything. That she would possibly believe, she was just making it clear that we wouldn't want that for the fans. Sarcasm isn't strong enough to hit this statement. Thank God someone published it. If not she might have gotten away with it. 

Edited January 5Jan 5 by Contessa Donatella
typos are always with us

14 minutes ago, robbwolff said:

Michael's last episode as Roger aired around April 23, 1997. Brown and Esensten were head writers at that point; their first head writing credit aired on March 31, 1997.

Yes, April 23, 1997, was Michael Zaslow's final appearance as Roger Thorpe. Dennis Parlato succeeded him from May 1, 1997, to March 16, 1998. I'm disappointed Zaslow, outside of being treated so poorly by production, that he was unable to work under the pen of Barbara Esenstein & James Harmon Brown, although the work Parlato was given felt... very different to what I feel Zaslow could have either been given, or could have done with the material that was written and viewed.