Rauch did not understand class or race. Slezak (one of his biggest supporters) mourned the loss of class and race issues/stories on OLTL when Rauch took over. He was terrible on SB with the issue where the biggest problem facing a couple was a "ghost." I don't know how he was on AW or YR (besides the whole Adam goes temporarily gay storyline). Couple that with his idea that all women should be extremely thin and sexy and it's so ugh.

Well - I had a few drinks tonight and came across the GL series finale on YT and said why not, even though it's generally against my will to skip ahead haha.

-The show looks like a combination of MTV's Undressed (if you remember that) and some UK soap operas.

-A young Dani Dupree was on this show! Wow.

-What happened to Eleni? Poor Frank seems alone.

-So many young characters that I don't know.

-Fletcher and Alex are together, which is cute, but what happened to Holly???

-Josh calling Reva and telling her to meet him at Cross Creek haha - always happens. Their scenes are like repeats of what I'm watching right now in 1996-1997 haha. Like literally the same. Josh tells Reva to wait 9 months for Annie's "baby" to come and then he'll be ready for her; here he tells Reva to meet him at the lighthouse in 1 year and he'll be ready. Yet, in both eras they say they love each other and want each other. Get it together Jeva haha.

-What is Reva wearing? It looks like she just rolled out of bed in her 2000s pajamas haha. What happened to Kim's wrist - why is she wearing a blue bandage?

-Robert Newman still looks good after all these years.

-Jonathan Lavery is on this show!

-Matt Reardon has a daughter?? Who is the mom?? Where is Vanessa?

-All the sunglasses in this episode are awful - Josh, Frank, the blond girl - all awful.

-For some reason, Grant Alexandar looks more handsome than he ever did in the 90s to me.

-Frank and Blake are end game?? Wow. And they now have a baby together?? I can't recall them ever having scenes together in my 90s rewatch. I miss Blake's red curls.

-Mindy is back!  And this is who Rick ends up with. Of course I'm now wondering about Abby and where she went haha.

-Billy is wearing a shirt that's like a dress haha. Good to see him.

-Tina Sloan looks amazing after all these years. And Lillian ends up with Buzz?? Wow.

I love seeing the lighthouse at the end. How sad that GL is over.

1 hour ago, alwaysAMC said:

Well - I had a few drinks tonight and came across the GL series finale on YT and said why not, even though it's generally against my will to skip ahead haha.

-The show looks like a combination of MTV's Undressed (if you remember that) and some UK soap operas.

-A young Dani Dupree was on this show! Wow.

-What happened to Eleni? Poor Frank seems alone.

-So many young characters that I don't know.

-Fletcher and Alex are together, which is cute, but what happened to Holly???

-Josh calling Reva and telling her to meet him at Cross Creek haha - always happens. Their scenes are like repeats of what I'm watching right now in 1996-1997 haha. Like literally the same. Josh tells Reva to wait 9 months for Annie's "baby" to come and then he'll be ready for her; here he tells Reva to meet him at the lighthouse in 1 year and he'll be ready. Yet, in both eras they say they love each other and want each other. Get it together Jeva haha.

-What is Reva wearing? It looks like she just rolled out of bed in her 2000s pajamas haha. What happened to Kim's wrist - why is she wearing a blue bandage?

-Robert Newman still looks good after all these years.

-Jonathan Lavery is on this show!

-Matt Reardon has a daughter?? Who is the mom?? Where is Vanessa?

-All the sunglasses in this episode are awful - Josh, Frank, the blond girl - all awful.

-For some reason, Grant Alexandar looks more handsome than he ever did in the 90s to me.

-Frank and Blake are end game?? Wow. And they now have a baby together?? I can't recall them ever having scenes together in my 90s rewatch. I miss Blake's red curls.

-Mindy is back!  And this is who Rick ends up with. Of course I'm now wondering about Abby and where she went haha.

-Billy is wearing a shirt that's like a dress haha. Good to see him.

-Tina Sloan looks amazing after all these years. And Lillian ends up with Buzz?? Wow.

I love seeing the lighthouse at the end. How sad that GL is over.

I agree the feel is closer to a UK soap (or a very budget version. I have watched some of the finale again recently and there are any number of moments I enjoy, but the muzak is not among them. If people can fix and change episodes so much now I wish they could do that here. I don't care about AI upscaling an episode from 1960 - I just want to stop hearing that I-won-a-contest-because-everyone-else-dropped-out music.

Grant aged extremely well, as did Robert Newman, among others.

Not sure whether you want the answers or would rather be surprised so I'll put them in spoilers:

 

Frank and Blake were lovers in the early '90s. They did not become a more serious couple until near the end of the show. They did not have a child - she had three children with Ross (two you've seen). Beyond his daughter Marina, he has a baby with a woman named Natalia near the end of the show. (they were not a couple as she had fallen in love with another woman) 

Around 1998 or so, Eleni and Frank hit the rocks after he kisses another woman. I think (I may be wrong) she leaves for a catering job in LA and finds love with another man. She returns for a bit around 1999 or 2000 but the show doesn't do anything with her.

IIRC, Rick and Abby split as he wants to push her into a more traditional family life than she is ready for. Michelle's mother, Claire, a scheming miserable lady with the face of Barbara Cudahy Montgomery, drugs Rick and tries to make Abby think they had sex. Abby essentially tells her she's a stupid bitch whore (paraphrasing here) as she knew that Rick had not cheated on her. She then tells Rick that in spite of this she is ending their marriage. 

Fletcher and Holly break up because Fletcher realizes she is still in love with Roger and he runs off with baby Meg. He eventually returns to let Holly see Meg after she has a breakdown, but then they leave again. Holly eventually disappears from Springfield but returns for the final episodes and reconciles with her ex-husband, Ed Bauer. They once again leave Springfield for a trip together.

Maureen is Matt's daughter with Vanessa. Matt and Vanessa had split up at this time as, for among other reasons, he had lost all her money and slept with a brain-damaged Dinah.

Edited June 28Jun 28 by DRW50

8 hours ago, alwaysAMC said:

This is such an odd decision to me, because I really love the Alex/Amanda rivalry. I also didn't know they fired Dusay, how awful. But, my personal gain as I LOVED Dusay on AMC as Vanessa. Being Vincent Irizarry's mother again, plus Josh Duhamel's mother... it was so good. 

Co-sign all of that & add PROTEUS!!!!!

6 hours ago, alwaysAMC said:

-A young Dani Dupree was on this show! Wow.

Karla Mosely was on GL & then on B&B.

6 hours ago, alwaysAMC said:

-What happened to Eleni? Poor Frank seems alone.

Frank & Blake got together & he has a new daughter Francesca. Eleni's been on primetime for years. LOL 

 

6 hours ago, alwaysAMC said:

-Fletcher and Alex are together, which is cute, but what happened to Holly???

Ed stops by & gives her 16 minutes to pack & go around the world with him & she is in this great striped shirt. 

 

6 hours ago, alwaysAMC said:

-Jonathan Lavery is on this show!

Playing the last Shane, quite well!!

6 hours ago, alwaysAMC said:

-Frank and Blake are end game?? Wow. And they now have a baby together?? I can't recall them ever having scenes together in my 90s rewatch. I miss Blake's red curls.

Francesca is Natalia's daughter.

Natalia is with Olivia. It's complicated.

I was just thinking that I don't watch the last episode by itself. I watch the last 3 days together. You will get that later. Maybe even the last 5 days.

Edited June 28Jun 28 by Contessa Donatella

9 hours ago, kalbir said:

In MZ last episode (April 23, 1997) it is clear that something is not right health-wise. From what I've read over the years, the whole situation was not handled well.

I mean, it was handled so poorly it could be written up as textbook what NOT to do!!! Wrong decision and then MADD's appalling quote.

7 hours ago, chrisml said:

Rauch did not understand class or race. Slezak (one of his biggest supporters) mourned the loss of class and race issues/stories on OLTL when Rauch took over. He was terrible on SB with the issue where the biggest problem facing a couple was a "ghost." I don't know how he was on AW or YR (besides the whole Adam goes temporarily gay storyline). Couple that with his idea that all women should be extremely thin and sexy and it's so ugh.

Even more he over lit everything! Plus only he knew what  clothes women should wear, down to collar & color!! Can we spell control  freak?

7 hours ago, alwaysAMC said:

Well - I had a few drinks tonight and came across the GL series finale on YT and said why not, even though it's generally against my will to skip ahead haha.

-The show looks like a combination of MTV's Undressed (if you remember that) and some UK soap operas.

-A young Dani Dupree was on this show! Wow.

-What happened to Eleni? Poor Frank seems alone.

-So many young characters that I don't know.

-Fletcher and Alex are together, which is cute, but what happened to Holly???

-Josh calling Reva and telling her to meet him at Cross Creek haha - always happens. Their scenes are like repeats of what I'm watching right now in 1996-1997 haha. Like literally the same. Josh tells Reva to wait 9 months for Annie's "baby" to come and then he'll be ready for her; here he tells Reva to meet him at the lighthouse in 1 year and he'll be ready. Yet, in both eras they say they love each other and want each other. Get it together Jeva haha.

-What is Reva wearing? It looks like she just rolled out of bed in her 2000s pajamas haha. What happened to Kim's wrist - why is she wearing a blue bandage?

-Robert Newman still looks good after all these years.

-Jonathan Lavery is on this show!

-Matt Reardon has a daughter?? Who is the mom?? Where is Vanessa?

-All the sunglasses in this episode are awful - Josh, Frank, the blond girl - all awful.

-For some reason, Grant Alexandar looks more handsome than he ever did in the 90s to me.

-Frank and Blake are end game?? Wow. And they now have a baby together?? I can't recall them ever having scenes together in my 90s rewatch. I miss Blake's red curls.

-Mindy is back!  And this is who Rick ends up with. Of course I'm now wondering about Abby and where she went haha.

-Billy is wearing a shirt that's like a dress haha. Good to see him.

-Tina Sloan looks amazing after all these years. And Lillian ends up with Buzz?? Wow.

I love seeing the lighthouse at the end. How sad that GL is over.

I will say, I had forgotten that Blake and Frank were "friendly" back in the early '90's. GL's wrap up seemed to want everyone happy (although Matt's misery tickles my funny bone as he mopes around the last few weeks, Maureen introduces him to her teacher at the end...) so everyone "got" someone or some kind of fresh start. Which led to some silliness about Blake/Frank and online dating.

9 hours ago, DeeVee said:

16 hours ago, chrisml said:

It was Daniel Pilon my mom remembered. I facebooked her his photo and she said, "That's him! He's the Alan who reminds me of XXXX."

So your mom was the one person who liked Pilon as Alan! LOL

At the time (I as 10) I thought DP was fine as Alan.  Looking back on it, he was kinda surly but I'd still take him over Ron Raines in a heartbeat.  RR Alan was a joke, a cartoon.  It's a wonder he wasn't paired with Carmen Santos who was also a cartoonish "mustache-twirling," villain.

47 minutes ago, Spoon said:

At the time (I as 10) I thought DP was fine as Alan.  Looking back on it, he was kinda surly but I'd still take him over Ron Raines in a heartbeat.  RR Alan was a joke, a cartoon.  It's a wonder he wasn't paired with Carmen Santos who was also a cartoonish "mustache-twirling," villain.

I think most of you are way too hard on Raines & maybe on that dame, too!

10 hours ago, alwaysAMC said:

This is such an odd decision to me, because I really love the Alex/Amanda rivalry. I also didn't know they fired Dusay, how awful. But, my personal gain as I LOVED Dusay on AMC as Vanessa. Being Vincent Irizarry's mother again, plus Josh Duhamel's mother... it was so good. 

There was actually a gap. He fired Marj in 1997, and I think it was 1998 when he brought her back because he said she was needed for the Vicky story. She was on recurring, so when AMC offered her a contract she left, and Rauch was mad because he said he was really going to use her. His fault for not bringing her back on contract

8 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I agree the feel is closer to a UK soap (or a very budget version. I have watched some of the finale again recently and there are any number of moments I enjoy, but the muzak is not among them. If people can fix and change episodes so much now I wish they could do that here. I don't care about AI upscaling an episode from 1960 - I just want to stop hearing that I-won-a-contest-because-everyone-else-dropped-out music.

Grant aged extremely well, as did Robert Newman, among others.

Not sure whether you want the answers or would rather be surprised so I'll put them in spoilers:

  Reveal hidden contents

Frank and Blake were lovers in the early '90s. They did not become a more serious couple until near the end of the show. They did not have a child - she had three children with Ross (two you've seen). Beyond his daughter Marina, he has a baby with a woman named Natalia near the end of the show. (they were not a couple as she had fallen in love with another woman) 

Around 1998 or so, Eleni and Frank hit the rocks after he kisses another woman. I think (I may be wrong) she leaves for a catering job in LA and finds love with another man. She returns for a bit around 1999 or 2000 but the show doesn't do anything with her.

IIRC, Rick and Abby split as he wants to push her into a more traditional family life than she is ready for. Michelle's mother, Claire, a scheming miserable lady with the face of Barbara Cudahy Montgomery, drugs Rick and tries to make Abby think they had sex. Abby essentially tells her she's a stupid bitch whore (paraphrasing here) as she knew that Rick had not cheated on her. She then tells Rick that in spite of this she is ending their marriage. 

Fletcher and Holly break up because Fletcher realizes she is still in love with Roger and he runs off with baby Meg. He eventually returns to let Holly see Meg after she has a breakdown, but then they leave again. Holly eventually disappears from Springfield but returns for the final episodes and reconciles with her ex-husband, Ed Bauer. They once again leave Springfield for a trip together.

Maureen is Matt's daughter with Vanessa. Matt and Vanessa had split up at this time as, for among other reasons, he had lost all her money and slept with a brain-damaged Dinah.

Oh yes, the music - yeesh. Appreciate the updates/spoilers - I read through them and am quite interested in seeing how some of those things play out. I've got so many years to get through though, we'll see if I even remember this stuff when the time comes haha.  

I really can't believe Abby would use such language though LOL - how funny. Sad to see how that relationship turns out. I noticed recently that Amy Ecklund got nominated for an Emmy, so I can't wait to see what she turns out.

1 hour ago, P.J. said:

I will say, I had forgotten that Blake and Frank were "friendly" back in the early '90's. GL's wrap up seemed to want everyone happy (although Matt's misery tickles my funny bone as he mopes around the last few weeks, Maureen introduces him to her teacher at the end...) so everyone "got" someone or some kind of fresh start. Which led to some silliness about Blake/Frank and online dating.

3 hours ago, Contessa Donatella said:

Co-sign all of that & add PROTEUS!!!!!

I was just thinking that I don't watch the last episode by itself. I watch the last 3 days together. You will get that later. Maybe even the last 5 days.

Yes, the Proteus reveal!   And yeah, I got the sense that I probably should have watched the last few days as it's hard to fit everything into a single last episode. Maybe another weekend I'll do that haha.

Ah yes, the finale had Frank and Blake meet up where they were going to meet each other's mystery online dating pen pal, and they realize they were talking to each other this whole time. 

7 minutes ago, bboy875 said:

There was actually a gap. He fired Marj in 1997, and I think it was 1998 when he brought her back because he said she was needed for the Vicky story. She was on recurring, so when AMC offered her a contract she left, and Rauch was mad because he said he was really going to use her. His fault for not bringing her back on contract

Ahh interesting, well, I'm glad we got Vanessa on AMC so it all worked out, but glad he was kicking himself there haha.

1 hour ago, P.J. said:

I will say, I had forgotten that Blake and Frank were "friendly" back in the early '90's.

From what I recall, they were chem testing Frank with almost everyone in a skirt the first few years (similar to what they did with Josh in the beginning). Then, they imported Eleni for him, like they did with Reva for Josh. (The worst was Samantha. She was way too young for him, it was icky).

55 minutes ago, Spoon said:

At the time (I as 10) I thought DP was fine as Alan.  Looking back on it, he was kinda surly but I'd still take him over Ron Raines in a heartbeat.  RR Alan was a joke, a cartoon.  It's a wonder he wasn't paired with Carmen Santos who was also a cartoonish "mustache-twirling," villain.

Like I said, I think Pilon was in a tough spot. Why bother investing in a role if it's temporary? The timing of Roger's return, and the whole story about the show going to Zaslow with the offer of playing Alan, shows they had to have been searching for a permanent replacement pretty soon after Bernau's final exit. Bernau's last episode was broadcast summer of '88, he must have taped it late spring. Then Zaslow shows up in January of '89, probably first taping around November of '88. So I'm guessing Pilon always knew he was not ever going to be permanent. In fact, he probably would have been there a much shorter time if Zaslow had accepted the offer to play Alan or if they had found another permanent replacement.

It's obvious they picked him because he was tall, dark, good-looking, and played a very similar role on Ryan's Hope. Even though I thought his exit story was idiotic, to me it seemed he finally got into the groove of the character at the end. He probably thought at the time to hell with it, I'm leaving anyway, may as well go for it.

19 minutes ago, Contessa Donatella said:

I think most of you are way too hard on Raines & maybe on that dame, too!

I've heard Raines is a lovely human being, and I don't like to beat up on actors. But he just was not Alan. He didn't have the charisma or the darkness to play that part. At least Pilon could play that dark side of Alan. He also had no chemistry with the actresses they paired him with. Alan was supposed to be a player, both in business and with women. Raines never convinced me.

He might have done better if the writing for the character had been better. Same for Saundra Santiago as Carmen. Even really good actors can't overcome bad writing.

47 minutes ago, DeeVee said:

From what I recall, they were chem testing Frank with almost everyone in a skirt the first few years (similar to what they did with Josh in the beginning). Then, they imported Eleni for him, like they did with Reva for Josh. (The worst was Samantha. She was way too young for him, it was icky).

Like I said, I think Pilon was in a tough spot. 

No kidding. No matter who, it seemed like Frankie was always out there casting a line, hoping to land anything swimming by. In '89, it's even with the likes of Holly and Vanessa. 

On reflection, Pilon's not as bad as I remembered. He at least seems like he could match wits with Roger. It's harder to judge RR in some respects, simply because the writing and his adversaries is so much poorer. His Alan is perpetually a chump.

Edited June 28Jun 28 by P.J.

From what I've seen of Daniel Pilon, he's fine as Alan. I don't know why they didn't just keep him as Alan as an Alan/Roger feud would have been interesting as @P.J.suggests. Plus, Pilon was charismatic so you always want a leading man who can go into some sort of romance/triangle. 

I don't have the animosity towards Raines that some people do, but that's because I didn't see a lot of him. I also saw some of Dusay's work and thought she was so miscast as Alexaandra that Raines looks better in comparison. 1994's Dusay was terrible from what I've seen (and this is before Alex in the Conboy era--being vague as not to spoil it for those watching it chronologically). I know she was Emmy nominated in 94/95?, but she was completely neutered and devoid of personality. It was shocking how bad it was. I blame JFP and the writers for most of it, but still. 

46 minutes ago, chrisml said:

From what I've seen of Daniel Pilon, he's fine as Alan. I don't know why they didn't just keep him as Alan as an Alan/Roger feud would have been interesting as @P.J.suggests. Plus, Pilon was charismatic so you always want a leading man who can go into some sort of romance/triangle.

They definitely errred by writing out Alan just as Roger came in. Their emnity was so important to the show for a time, and the fact that Roger ended up married to his sister should have kicked off oodles of conflict. By the time he came back, that was long over. 

Even though I would never believe Alan trying to kill Roger (he literally had no motive at that point, and one consistent thing about Alan was that he wasn't a killer) they could have still butted heads about a lot of things. For instance, what if Alan pursued Holly to get under Roger's skin? While Holly had good reason to resent Alan (she ended up in jail because he helped Roger fake his death) they were bound by the fact that they were both his victims, and both went to jail because of him while he was never punished for his crimes. 

Maybe they didn't look further for an Alan replacement after Zaslow turned them down because it was a money thing? It just seems weird that they waited five years to bring back the character. He was rich. Rich people don't serve full prison sentences. 😆

Edited June 28Jun 28 by DeeVee