2 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

There probably would have been a good chance they knew of him, especially with his ties to Spaulding and his being involved in so much scandal (meaning there would be plenty of photos and articles around they both would have seen), but I agree the mask was silly, clearly just a TV moment.

Eh...but neither had been in town. Know the name Roger Thorpe? Sure. But Alex would have gone crazy trying to memorize all of Alan's co-conspirators/lovers/wives and Fletch didn't even know Roger/Adam was on the island, IIRC.

But who knew or should've known each other is always a little dicey when people come back to town. 

2 hours ago, Speed Racer said:

IMO, Guiding Light never did a good job reintroducing major characters, either from the dead or elsewhere.  Masked balls = awful.  Amish = awful.

YES. The videos being uploaded to Spauldingfield are almost to the point where Alan is reintroduced. They're already talking about the guy he pretends to be, and yes, he returns at a masked ball. In fact, that masked ball is almost beat for beat the same as the masked ball where Alex was introduced! Get a new schtick.

49 minutes ago, P.J. said:

I do agree it's better to just have people pop back into town.

Before the Kobe era, that's pretty much what they did. Characters would just show up. Maybe other characters would talk about them for a while--the Chamberlains, Tony, Maureen, Andy, Kelly, Carrie--but then they would just appear. When Hope came back, she simply knocked on Bert's door and said something like, "Hi, Grandma, I'm home again." No particular fanfare.

Sometimes it would be a bit dramatic--Jennifer and Morgan were introduced when Mike accidentally crashed into their car, for instance, and Alan and Elizabeth were introduced through Jackie's flashbacks when she was remembering giving up Phillip for adoption. Nola was involved in the Roger return.

Roger's return in 1980 was very dramatic, but in a way that made total sense. He was trying to kidnap a child, so dressing up as a clown did not seem crazy. The mask bit was not only silly, it didn't even make sense. Alex never knew him, so there was no reason for him to be masked in front of her. Yeah, she knew OF him, but there's that phenomenon called cognetive dissonance. If you see someone outside of an expected situation, you probably won't recognize them, especially if you never met them in person and think they're dead. I bet a CIA spook like Roger would be familiar with that concept. And he didn't have to be skulking around SF for months.

Again, I will cut Long a little slack--it was not her idea to bring back Roger, she was told to do it. She never wrote for the character. It was something that was not planned. They originally went to Zaslow to offer him the role of Alan. He, of course, turned them down because that was a ridiculous idea, but then he suggested coming back as Roger. At such short notice, it's not strange his return was not handled well.

Edited June 8Jun 8 by DeeVee

4 minutes ago, P.J. said:

Eh...but neither had been in town. Know the name Roger Thorpe? Sure. But Alex would have gone crazy trying to memorize all of Alan's co-conspirators/lovers/wives and Fletch didn't even know Roger/Adam was on the island, IIRC.

But who knew or should've known each other is always a little dicey when people come back to town. 

They weren't in town, but Fletcher worked at the paper (and we saw anniversary Journal headlines for the 50th, although I don't remember if Roger was one of them), and I'd think Alex would have at least heard of him due to the damage he did to Spaulding only a few years before her return to the fold. I know I have to remember it's not real life, of course.

Edited June 8Jun 8 by DRW50

20 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

They weren't in town, but Fletcher worked at the paper (and we saw anniversary Journal headlines for the 50th, although I don't remember if Roger was one of them), and I'd think Alex would have at least heard of him due to the damage he did to Spaulding only a few years before her return to the fold. I know I have to remember it's not real life, of course.

I'm pretty sure he was. But point taken.

25 minutes ago, DeeVee said:

YES. The videos being uploaded to Spauldingfield are almost to the point where Alan is reintroduced. They're already talking about the guy he pretends to be, and yes, he returns at a masked ball. In fact, that masked ball is almost beat for beat the same as the masked ball where Alex was introduced! Get a new schtick.

 

Roger's return in 1980 was very dramatic, but in a way that made total sense. He was trying to kidnap a child, so dressing up as a clown did not seem crazy. The mask bit was not only silly, it didn't even make sense. Alex never knew him, so there was no reason for him to be masked in front of her. And he didn't have to be skulking around SF for months.

 

GL really had a thing for masked and costumed balls/parties in the '80's. Everyone looks fabulous, but those poor costume designers.

14 minutes ago, P.J. said:

GL really had a thing for masked and costumed balls/parties in the '80's. Everyone looks fabulous, but those poor costume designers.

It wasn't just a GL thing, it was an 80s thing. Opulent party scenes on soaps were very big back then. Even in regular episodes where people are just going to dinner they're dressed up like they're going to see royalty.

Roger's return storyline may have been silly but Roger's return was what lead to GL's last golden era. 

It was the combination of Roger's return and Robert Calhoun becoming EP that got GL to finally hit it's stride after some really bad years.

It will always disappoint me that the ratings during Robert Calhoun's run didn't reflect the quality of the show.

9 minutes ago, DeeVee said:

It wasn't just a GL thing, it was an 80s thing. Opulent party scenes on soaps were very big back then. Even in regular episodes where people are just going to dinner they're dressed up like they're going to see royalty.

Right? Vanessa had a ball gown for every occasion.

Elizabeth Dennehy complained on the Locher Room about how ridiculous so much of the writing was for Roger's return. She laughed at so much of Roger's antics and how it was hard for her to take them seriously. Probably another reason she was fired as she didn't play the game.

 

5 minutes ago, kalbir said:

Roger's return storyline may have been silly but Roger's return was what lead to GL's last golden era. 

It was the combination of Roger's return and Robert Calhoun becoming EP that got GL to finally hit it's stride after some really bad years.

It will always disappoint me that the ratings during Robert Calhoun's run didn't reflect the quality of the show.

Elements of it were silly, but it was a small price to pay to get Zas back.

I should say there's a difference between in town and out of town returns. It's understandable for Roger to skulk around town in a bad wig and clown suit when he's in Springfield and running the risk of bumping in to people he knows. 

Taking us out of town to find someone always has a short shelf life. Then it usually becomes about another character knowing X is alive but determined to keep them out of Springfield. Like Alan discovering Amish Reva. I don't know how long it went on, but it was probably twice as long as necessary.

I keep thinking about the persistent trend of eroticizing mental illness on Guiding Light.

Sonni and Annie were never more compelling, or more attractive to the show, than when they were manic. It played into a recurring theme: strong women undone by their unhinged reaction to sex. The writers were likely inspired by Basic Instinct and the broader wave of neo-noir films in the late '80s and early '90s, where female sexuality was often equated with instability. The result was a crude portrayal, not just of mental illness, but of womanhood itself.

Both Sonni and Annie were introduced as sharp, capable women, brought in specifically as formidable antagonists to Reva. They were logical and composed, standing in contrast to Reva’s emotional volatility. That difference made them threatening, but not especially “sexy”—until desire became their undoing. In a very male fantasy, their strength unraveled the moment they slept with Joshua. As soon as they got a taste of Lewis lovin’, they spiraled into scheming lunatics, willing to torch everything to hold on to him.

It was part of a larger trend in the culture. Fatal Attraction, Single White Female, and The Hand That Rocks the Cradle all traded on the idea that female desire was dangerous, barely held in check, and always teetering on the edge of madness.

Looking back, it's a pretty grim trope. And while it's not completely vanished, I'm grateful we don't see it quite as often today.

14 minutes ago, j swift said:

Looking back, it's a pretty grim trope. And while it's not completely vanished, I'm grateful we don't see it quite as often today.

Great points, and it has not completely vanished. Leslie on Beyond the Gates fits the trope (she's still not over that Ted lovin' two decades later), though I will say there does seem to be an effort to make her more complex.

Don't forget Carrie, who as Carrie2 was screwing everything in pants, and PPD Reva, who to either get back at Josh for his supposed affair with Vanessa (or just to prove she's more desirable than Van) tries to screw half the male population.

26 minutes ago, P.J. said:

Don't forget Carrie, who as Carrie2 was screwing everything in pants, and PPD Reva, who to either get back at Josh for his supposed affair with Vanessa (or just to prove she's more desirable than Van) tries to screw half the male population.

Didn't Carrie2 even seduce a minor? Ick. Oh, yeah, and she even tried to seduce Alan, but this was his post-prison era when he was trying to prove to everyone he had changed. It's funny that of all people he didn't go for it.

Wait. Josh had an affair with Vanessa? Or she just thought he did?

I know people always say "it's just a soap" but the way mental illness is portrayed on soaps (and that goes for pretty much all of them) has always been not great, especially PPD. They practically turned Claire into The Joker. She also was trying to seduce men. (I notice that now Mary Ryan Munisteri is listed as co HW with Ryder in the 1986 episodes, Claire has calmed down a lot. Never thought her GL career was very good but seems like she tried to course correct that a bit).

Edited June 8Jun 8 by DeeVee

I just watched some parts of an episode of GL where Roger has just been shot by Holly. Rita then admits to Hillary that Roger raped her. Kasdorf is such a fantastic actress. I wish there were more of her work available. 

@DeeVee Claire is a perfect example.

So many women came to Springfield as competent, smart, and talented professionals. Then they’d attract a so-called “good guy,” get dumped, and spiral into complete chaos.

What always strikes me is how clearly it plays like a male fantasy—yet it was written and sold to a female audience.  I'm not a content expert, but I don't think cis gendered women fantasize about losing control of their mental faculties in response to an orgasm.

Similar to Holly's story, it seems repulsive, because I don't believe women fantasize about becoming more vulnerable and appealing to men after they've been assaulted.

Edited June 8Jun 8 by j swift