Guiding Light discussion thread

[Vee]

Some, but not in years. I will watch them, but currently I've been sort of splitting my GL focus between Agnes Nixon eps from the '60s, the Dobsons and the mid-'80s.

[vetsoapfan]

So many excellent soap episodes disappear from youtube regularly, it's always appreciated when re-uploads are referenced. I wish the 1966 episode, with Bert castigating Robert Gentry's Ed for being "small" compared to his father would pop back up. I thought I had saved it, but it must have been on one of my USB devices which got corrupted and died.

It's true that in "modern-day" soap storytelling, murder is no big deal. Neither is kidnapping, rape, and a host of other ills, which is why the shows today have so little emotional power, IMHO. Who wants to see morally-bankrupt cretins getting away forever with their crimes...and being treated as romantic leads in the process? Not me.

I've always thought Marland's killing off Diane Ballard (and even, to a lesser extent, Joe Bradley) to be poor creative choices. Both actors were strong and charismatic, and could have driven story for ages.

[j swift]

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You know you're a soap fan when you read this headline and think Guiding Light, not Simpsons

[Contessa Donatella]

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No idea if this is true and old news, or what, but I just saw it on #SoapTwitter & thought, HMMMM. The tweeter then had more to say which I've included below but it really went in the direction of Strasser & Jill at OLTL, so it's really nothing to do with GL. I just include it for closure. 

Brandon's Buzz

@brandonsbuzz·

2h

 

Real ones know that in the fall of 1992, and with Michael Zaslow’s gently insistent prodding behind the scenes,

@robinstrasser

was in serious talks with then-producer Jill Phelps to take over as #GL’s Alexandra Spaulding, which role had just been infamously vacated >>>

 

 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Tonksadora
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[kalbir]

Any episodes of Roger/Holly storylines from 1979 and 1980 that surface are such a treat, because those storylines set in motion so much of what we saw a decade later. Not much of their 1976-1978 storylines have surfaced AFAIK.

Earlier in the thread I posted an article where GL cast members remembered MZ on the 20th anniversary of his death. Going back to it, Kimberley Simms credits the Roger/Mindy storyline for her growing as an actress and Mindy growing as a character, plus she mentions that the Roger/Mindy storyline allowed the audience to see MZ as a romantic leading man and not just a villain.

Despite the initial torridness of their pairing (affair with business rival's daughter), I think Roger did love Mindy. I remember a scene where Roger told Blake he loved Mindy and wanted to marry her. They wouldn't have worked as a long-term couple though as the specter of Roger's feelings for Holly would be lingering in the background.

 

[Soaplovers]

I think Mindy having Roger's baby would have provided more long term story threads.. and be an added element in the Billy/Roger fued vs having Hart come on as the long lost son... and would have been a physical reminder to Alexandra of what Mindy did to her and Roger (since Alexandra had always been warm/nice to her before the affair).

I could see Kim would think this.. but given the year that Reva had (Josh had left, she lost her baby, she was divorcing HB, then lost Kyle to Maeve due to her being pregnant).. I understood why Reva was at the absolute bottom emotionally.. and thought ending it all would be the answer.

I think had Pam Long not left in early 1986, she would have had Reva learn to love herself, stand on her two feet, etc... and she wouldn't have reunited Josh/Reva right away when he returned in late 1986... which really damaged Reva's character...imho.

[j swift]

Do anyone else think of the Roger/Jenna relationship as a repeat of the points in the Roger/Mindy story or had the character of Roger shown any progress between the two romances? 

To me the essential details are quite similar.  A former bad girl who is attracted to the naughtiness of Roger, is then transformed by the love of a romantic hero (Nick/Buzz).  Obviously there was more to both stories, but other highlights include the women both having fathers who were enemies of Roger.  And, of course, Roger's revenge when he felt betrayed by both women.

Edited February 20, 2023 by j swift

[DRW50]

I had already zoned out of the show by the time Roger/Jenna began, but I would say by the time they met Roger, Mindy, who was mostly a spoilt schemer while in her teens, was very different from Jenna, a grown woman who was a cat burglar. I also thought Roger had more genuine feeling for Mindy than he did for Jenna, as by the time Jenna came along it was clear Roger could only ever love Holly.

Edited February 21, 2023 by DRW50

[mace44]

Interesting that Zimmer Vehemently opposed the suicide storyline, as it garnished her an EMMY and IMO allowed her character tremendous growth to independence, really birthing her character as REVA SHAYNE.  Before that storyline, she was always under the shadow of Lewis Men History.  1985-1986 was my Favorite version of Reva.  I loved the Kyle/Reva storyline and loved the Laura series.  I thought Kim Zimmer & Jay Hammer did fantastic work with that storyline. I thought Zimmer & Malloy had great chemistry and he held his ground nicely as a leading man on the show. 

Great info on the Cain stuff too.  I’ve just converted about 30 hours worth of VHS of GL 1985-86 videos that I am starting to post on YouTube under SampsonGirl.  Mostly Kyle/Reva/Fletcher/Maeve storylines but I have a lot of Laura series/Cain storylines still to post.  Trying to finish 1985 before starting a bunch of 1986.  Definitely gonna view with a different lens with this background info.
 

 

[Vee]

The Dobsons stuff has always been intricate and fascinating to me for many years, but it grows moreso the deeper I go in this binge. I also have too many questions:

How much of the Amanda/Lucille, etc. story did they write, and why did they leave? Did P&G just want to shake up creative teams at their two very long-running soaps? Or were Jennifer and Morgan entirely a Marland thing, as I suspect? Or the Spaulding twist with Jennifer?

Marland seems to have inherited an embarrassment of riches with Alan/Jackie/Justin/Elizabeth/Mike, etc., Alan/Hope, the Stapleton sisters, etc. But it's telling how much he flushed and changed up/reinvented for his own vision, however brief, as well. I wonder what the process behind all of that was; I only know a little bit about the BTS details. I always found Amanda's gothic storyline fascinating in this period, and I associated the mysterious and beautiful Ritournelle opening card and music with that stuff. Ben was always such a hunk, and even Eve is cute and sweet. They built a lot of sturdy and complex female characters in their run, even if some ran out of usefulness. I just stumbled upon the debuts of both Ross (advocating against laws for martial rape - what an era) and Elvera Roussel's Hope. I wonder why they brought Peggy, the former long-running teen heroine, back to just seemingly hang out at the nurses station.

Edited February 21, 2023 by Vee

[DRW50]

Someone else will know better than me but I think they may have been burnt out + they were moved over to ATWT to try to salvage it (which did not work out...).

I believe Morgan and Jennifer were all Marland.

I've wondered if they just brought Peggy back as a kindness to Fran Meyers, as she was transitioning out of acting into writing and was a new mother. It's a shame they didn't do more with her. 

There are a number of characters who suit the Dobsons tone and style so specifically that they just seem to fade into nothingness under Marland's weird combo of heavy plot and I'm-OK-you're-OK jargoning, or become much more exhausting (Amanda among them).

The odd thing with the Dobsons is I don't think they ever really match this quality or ability to focus elsewhere. Maybe they were just a very strong team with Allen Potter, I don't know. 

[DRW50]

I've seen your channel. Great to hear you have more content to upload. I agree this is one of the more unique periods for Reva, helped by not being able to tie her so heavily to Josh. I wonder if they ever considered bringing Kyle back.

[MichaelGL]

I've always been puzzled as to how vastly different the Dobsons are at ATWT and SB, (maybe GH too) compared to their time at GL. I can't help but to think maybe Allen Potter had something to do with their success at GL. 

[Contessa Donatella]

If I understood what I read, they were really happy at GL & wanted to stay on but P&G asked them to swap with Marland & them take ATWT & let him take GL. He was mad & insisted that he had to have a month off in between, so they wrote both shows for one month & didn't want to be at ATWT in the first place. And, at GL, they liked P&G a lot. "We got a lot of good, basic advice on drama & story from Bob Short & Ed Trach at Procter & Gamble." - The Dobsons 2000 interview

SB was just a whole 'nother ball game from the moment they called them & said, what if you could be in complete control of whatever you wanted to do, ... it was a dream they never knew to dream. Of course, things went awry. 

"It was impossible for Anne Howard Bailey to get inside my head, and I could not get in her head. She has a darker view of life than I do; I think she thinks of me as Pollyanna, and I think of her as Darth Vader." - Bridget Dobson about the writer they wanted to fire off of Santa Barbara

And, at GH, well that was her parents turf & they never thought she did well. I think their persistent disapproval of her is one of the sticking points of her life. Possibly GL was especially good because it was the first time on her own & not under them. 

[BetterForgotten]

By the time they got to ATWT, P&G/CBS had a lot more mandates. ATWT was seen a dated show and had recently lost its #1 winning streak as ABC daytime had ascended in a massive way. It was seen as a show that was in much trouble and that needed to be "contemporary" - something Bridger and Jerry had successfully done with GL, which is why they were shipped over to ATWT to begin with. 

Allen Potter was a creative inclined EP as well (hence why he and Marland clashed), so he also played an integral role in shaping that canvas at the time.