I think this was their way of doing damage control, so they can say they didn't lead the audience into wanting the gay storyline they initially promised them. This way, they don't have to deliver on anything, since they came out and admitted to the press that they're not doing a gay storyline.

I think Kenny at DR summed it up nicely by saying this:

I feel like this article is Y&R's way of doing damage control. They saw that people reacted badly to the "gay" stuff and sent Hamner to calm their fears by doing this interview. I mean, you don't see 'em doing interviews like this in regards to other stories. "Hey... no more cancer stories. We promise! Oh, and no more 'cheating spouse' stories. We promise! You can start watching again, I swear."

It's very, very, very lame.

And this is where I find the most fault with this writing regime. The gay story(or the gay stuff) wasn't the problem. It was the way in which it was presented and teased, like some 1980's Steven Carrington taboo. Adam, a core character, uses a gay man for sex so he can keep his secret. Phillip, thought to be dead for 20 years, returns a stick-up-the-ass self-righteous puffed up queen with no remorse about the way he left his wife and family and his own f**king son! That he created. That [!@#$%^&*] works well for Van Hansis, not a man in his mid 40's who has been lying to his family for years.

You have gay people working behind and in front of the scenes of these shows and you mean to tell me that you couldn't have asked any one of them about what their experiences were like coming out? Surely SOMEONE could have provided some insight.

Maria's been given plenty of chances and plenty of time to write for multiple characters in multiple storylines. I've given her the benefit of the doubt plenty of times and she has continued to disappoint.

Not only is this WOMAN a self-hating misogynist, she's also a racist and a homophobe. And if she's not, then I sure as hell can't tell because she puts her name on this sh*t every single day in the credits.

MARY! Seriously, did she kill your cat and rape your son? Or vice versa? I mean, the show is bad, but really now.

Call a spade a spade. Right?

You're being very Mercedes McCambridge in Johnny Guitar.

You're being very Mercedes McCambridge in Johnny Guitar.

I'll be sure to add that to my NetFlix cue.

Vee... thanks, I NEEDED a laugh right about now. BADLY. Now... ALVIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I went over to daytime royalty and read for myself, seems both YOU and KENNY are reaching a bit. You came over here and posted Hamner's quote... and you conveniently left of the last sentence of his quote, which is making my theory look much more likely:

"And, at this point, I don't see a future for Rafe and Adam."

Now, when I read THAT... it makes me think he WAS referring specifically to Rafe/Adam when he said they never had any intention of a gay SL.

The general article was talking about gay storylines on Y&R, which Hamner said wouldn't be happening at all, at least not soon.

And if any other gay storyline was planned, why didn't he mention it in the fall previews he gave? There is nothing planned for a gay character on Y&R, no gay storyline, we need to accept that. They used the gay media for attention and the gay element of Rafe and Phillip III for shock, and nothing more.

If Phillip III were getting a boyfriend for example, Hamner would have mentioned that in his fall preview, and he didn't. The fact that Bierdz's six month contract ends during the fall tells me he won't be around much longer. Also, the fact that Rafe is still only a recurring characters, tells me they have no intention of developing him or giving him a life outside of the people he usually interacts with.

As it stands, both Rafe and Phillip III are hardly ever on screen, and there hasn't been anything as little as a hint about those characters getting anything resembling a storyline soon.

Edited August 20, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

And this is where I find the most fault with this writing regime. The gay story(or the gay stuff) wasn't the problem. It was the way in which it was presented and teased, like some 1980's Steven Carrington taboo. Adam, a core character, uses a gay man for sex so he can keep his secret. Phillip, thought to be dead for 20 years, returns a stick-up-the-ass self-righteous puffed up queen with no remorse about the way he left his wife and family and his own f**king son! That he created. That [!@#$%^&*] works well for Van Hansis, not a man in his mid 40's who has been lying to his family for years.

You have gay people working behind and in front of the scenes of these shows and you mean to tell me that you couldn't have asked any one of them about what their experiences were like coming out? Surely SOMEONE could have provided some insight.

Maria's been given plenty of chances and plenty of time to write for multiple characters in multiple storylines. I've given her the benefit of the doubt plenty of times and she has continued to disappoint.

Not only is this WOMAN a self-hating misogynist, she's also a racist and a homophobe. And if she's not, then I sure as hell can't tell because she puts her name on this sh*t every single day in the credits.

Pretty much.

Is it just me or is this just like how Y&R started to do a gay story back in the '70s and backpedaled? Is daytime THAT conservative now? The answer is no, since nearly every other frigging show is doing or has done a gay story.

I think the core daytime audience is still quite conservative, since there have been boycotts and such when gay stories are introduced. Y&R did stop Vikki/Neil when fans spoke out, so I think they are susceptible to fan pressure. I think it's a cycle. They cater to the very conservative, so now soaps are dependent on that audience and can't really do a lot of cutting edge stories without losing it's core. But they can't attract a younger audience as long as they are showing this strange, antiquated version of American society. It's like we are stuck in a conservative version of the 80's or something.

I'll be sure to add that to my NetFlix cue.

That's what I'm here for.

And it's "queue."

Edited August 20, 200916 yr by Vee

That's what I'm here for.

And it's "queue."

Thanks for the spellcheck. Now if you'll excuse yourself, I'm sure there's a OLTL/Ron Carlivati fanwanking thread that is in DIRE need of your attention.

I'm sure you're sick of the "dick measuring" in the Y&R thread. And since you think you have the biggest one of all, then you are free to leave with your John Holmes tucked in your jockeys.

Edited August 20, 200916 yr by bellcurve

If they ever had any bigger plans for Rafe, with anyone, I don't know if this ever made it to the screen. From the start his character has been so irrelevant. He would vanish for long periods of time, they never built up a relationship with Adam. They deliberately wanted it to be about shocking people and about the act itself, not those involved. On ATWT, they clearly had some plans, as Luke and Noah kissed several times, then obviously caved.

I would think longtime viewers would be more concerned over Y&R's original intentions for Phillip than newbie Rafe. I'm sure months from now when Thom Bierdz is long-gone from the show and has personally vowed to never return, he'll admit what bogusness really went on behind the scenes.

Thanks for the spellcheck. Now if you'll excuse yourself, I'm sure there's a OLTL/Ron Carlivati fanwanking thread that is in DIRE need of your attention.

Actually, no, we eschewed the "[RON CARLIVATI/MARIA BELL/ETC] IS A FAILURE AS A [MAN/WOMAN/ANIMAL/MINERAL/VEGETABLE] AND A LOVER" threads for something I like to call "the weekly thread."

I'm sure you're sick of the "dick measuring" in the Y&R thread. And since you think you have the biggest one of all, then you are free to leave with your John Holmes tucked in your jockeys.

So that's where my underwear's been going.

I would think longtime viewers would be more concerned over Y&R's original intentions for Phillip than newbie Rafe. I'm sure months from now when Thom Bierdz is long-gone from the show and has personally vowed to never return, he'll admit what bogusness really went on behind the scenes.

I'll be surprised if Thom criticizes them, unless they have Phillip go straight or become some nut. I don't think he'll ever say anything negative about the story, even if it wasn't what he expected, because he's probably honored they brought him back at all.

I'm sure his comment on the storyline will involve staring at the ceiling for a full four seconds before looking to stage left and muttering something about how parents just don't understand.

I think the core daytime audience is still quite conservative, since there have been boycotts and such when gay stories are introduced. Y&R did stop Vikki/Neil when fans spoke out, so I think they are susceptible to fan pressure. I think it's a cycle. They cater to the very conservative, so now soaps are dependent on that audience and can't really do a lot of cutting edge stories without losing it's core. But they can't attract a younger audience as long as they are showing this strange, antiquated version of American society. It's like we are stuck in a conservative version of the 80's or something.

So very true. So many of the Y&R fans that write in to the show make it a point in their first sentence to add that they've been watching since day one. They're not young liberal peeps. And even though Y&R began as an edgy, provocative soap, it is now the stuffiest, conservative dinosaur out of all 8 soaps. I mean, c'mon, Cane goes and marries Chloe because he knocked her up and had to do the noble thing? That's straight up 1950's!

Y&R still has fans that will write in anonymously and "accuse" Y&R of being "nigger-lovers" because they paired up Phyllis with African-American Damon. And not surprisingly, the letter was postmarked from Arkansas...

Edited August 20, 200916 yr by Gray Bunny

So very true. So many of the Y&R fans that write in to the show make it a point in their first sentence to add that they've been watching since day one. They're not young liberal peeps. And even though Y&R began as an edgy, provocative soap, it is now the stuffiest, conservative dinosaur out of all 8 soaps. I mean, c'mon, Cane goes and marries Chloe because he knocked her up and had to do the noble thing? That's straight up 1950's!

Y&R still has fans that will write in anonymously and "accuse" Y&R of being "nigger-lovers" because they paired up Phyllis with African-American Damon. And not surprisingly, the letter was postmarked from Arkansas...

I think the conservatism has more to do with those in charge than just the show itself. Sheffer adds a very sexist, bigoted tone to any soap he writes for. Hamner isn't much better. Rauch has little time for strong women or minorities. I know the show has never been a daring soap, but they have never been quite this extremely conservative in a long time. Seeing Chloe try to give custody of Delia to Billy and Chloe because her child needs a mother and father...blech.

Perhaps if they had planned a big gay story, fans would have been angry, but I don't think Y&R ever even made the effort.