CBS jettisoned more than Beverly Hillbillies. In the 70s, it dropped several "first-gen" soaps (e.g., Love of Life, Secret Storm) and made room for "second-gen" soaps (e.g., Y&R, Capitol). All the networks have given up on this reinvention of daytime...and that is the more meaningful sign of giving up.

I honestly believe that there are startup costs associated with new regimes that are not sustainable to the investors. I truly think that is the main reason, at CBS, Goutman and the Bells (and before that EW) stick around and stick around. Nothing about their creative or fiscal performance justifies keeping these people. But the era of investment and re-investment is over.

Love of Life and Secret Storm had sustained big ratings losses, partially due to network interference and partially due to changing times. The Secret Storm had killed off or written out almost their entire core family. We keep hearing the soap press and others tell us that Y&R is going to be just fine as long as Eric Braeden stays around, so Y&R doesn't have that problem at the moment.

If anything, this just proves that regime change is needed. Love of Life DID improve when they brought fresh blood in (Jean Arley, Claire Labine, Paul Avila Mayer).

I just can't excuse the hackery of this team by saying "No one cares, daytime is dead." The writers strike was the perfect opportunity for CBS to can Y&R once and for all if they were as sick of daytime as you say. LML would have gotten the blame. The strike would have gotten the blame.

Instead, Sony dumped LML and brought in Griffith and MAB. Then they did make an effort to bring in, after a ratings loss, bring in people who were seen as good hires (why I don't know), like Sheffer and Rauch. So clearly someone at Sony or CBS does care. I know they have lost some of their franchise fee since then, but clearly they still want the show around, otherwise we would be hearing cancellation rumors.

I can't imagine that in the space of a year and a half, daytime's climate has suddenly become so devastating that they can no longer afford to bring in a new headwriter or producer for Y&R.

Edited November 14, 200916 yr by CarlD2

Well I don't think LML was a total hack. She's way better than MAB and the 5 dollar foot long eater.But LML did let that power go to her head

Edited November 14, 200916 yr by aMLCproduction

They show is littered with new faces that are on all the damn time you can't tell if the vets are acting out of character or not

Once they figure out how to get more younger numbers, watch the soaps disappear.

If it were that easy, the soaps would be long dead. NBC has spent years and years now with a miniscule amount of soaps, now down to one, yet they are still uncomfortable enough with their youth demo in daytime that they aren't canceling DAYS yet. I'm not sure if the young demo is always the main goal in the end -- I think Passions had a good young demo, but was still taken off the air.

Edited November 14, 200916 yr by CarlD2

What was the logic of bringing on Hogan? Can anyone answer me this?

I'm interested, dmarex. Who is acting out of character in your opinion?

I should clarify: most of them are just propping 4-5 central stars, and that's why it bugs me. They haven't changed character so much drastically, but they are all used as little puppets that have a job of propping the few "greater ones."

Plus, PLOT is taking each character hostage and they're forced to change tunes and opinions as time passes.

What was the logic of bringing on Hogan? Can anyone answer me this?

There was no logic. I guess CBS wanted to turn themselves into an ABC copy, and they have successfully done so.

I mean really. We all saw Hogan nearly destroy DAYS and came VERY close to getting canceled. Who in their right mind would hire him to work on daytime's no. one show? Where's the logic in this? Could it be because SONY owns both shows and Hogan had time left on his contract at Days and and they bumped him to Y&R? How long are writers contacts?

I mean really. We all saw Hogan nearly destroy DAYS and came VERY close to getting canceled. Who in their right mind would hire him to work on daytime's no. one show? Where's the logic in this? Could it be because SONY owns both shows and Hogan had time left on his contract at Days and and they bumped him to Y&R? How long are writers contacts?

I really think you have half the story.

I think this was above staving off a lawsuit (or having to do a Jim Reilly and pay Hogan for years without working on Days). I also think he's thought to be good at plot-plot, and that IS precisely what MAB desperately needed after the first six months of 2008. So, they figured it was win-win...stave off lawsuits, and give Maria a plot machine that she could "control".

Unfortunately, what seems to have happened is that the plot machine got more uncontrolled power than it should have.

Ok so my next questions is, how long is Hogans writing contract?

Ok so my next questions is, how long is Hogans writing contract?

Nobody knows, but here is a good guess:

His episodes started appearing in late summer 2008.

So, assuming he signed on in summer 2008, we can assume he probably has something like a typical 36-month contract with 12 month cycles. Or, maybe, in exchange for not suing Sony for the Days dismissal, maybe they agreed to do away with cycles?

If he has cycles, then they decided to retain him after summer 2009. So, this means they liked his work.

If he doesn't have cycles, then we would reasonable have him till Summer 2010 (if he got a 2-year contract) or Summer 2011 (if he got a 3-year contract).

Of course, if they hated him, they could buy him out. But I don't think they hate him, and I don't think they want to waste $$ on buyouts.

We have a lot of writerly folks here though who know this stuff better than my conjecture. I hope one of them answers.

Yea, I asked the same question in the writers thread. So would his time at DAYS be included in time served in his contract? Or did he get an entirely new deal at Y&R?

Yea, I asked the same question in the writers thread. So would his time at DAYS be included in time served in his contract? Or did he get an entirely new deal at Y&R?

I'm positive it would be a new deal.

Who is acting out of character in your opinion?

Everyone.

If they aren't third wheels in pre determined love triangle they are perpetual props of pre determined love triangles.

CBS jettisoned more than Beverly Hillbillies. In the 70s, it dropped several "first-gen" soaps (e.g., Love of Life, Secret Storm) and made room for "second-gen" soaps (e.g., Y&R, Capitol). All the networks have given up on this reinvention of daytime...and that is the more meaningful sign of giving up.

I honestly believe that there are startup costs associated with new regimes that are not sustainable to the investors. I truly think that is the main reason, at CBS, Goutman and the Bells (and before that EW) stick around and stick around. Nothing about their creative or fiscal performance justifies keeping these people. But the era of investment and re-investment is over.

If Barbara Bloom could get 10 million eyeballs to daytime, she'd do whatever she could to do it. But everyone knows that can't happen...hence they don't even try.

MAB and team (specifically HS after August 08) do get credit for rebuilding the 0.5 HH ratings points that MAB and JG lost in early 2008. And they get blame if the ratings have fallen again. But this is all almost trivial. These little ratings bumps and declines pale in the face of the steady, unrelenting, industry-wide year-by-year ratings fall. That has to do with a lot of factors (broadcast TV, dying off of the audience, lack of availability of a daytime audience, etc. etc.)...but it explains why nobody is going to keep investing.

It's like an urban neighborhood after suburbanization. The tax base is gone. The city is now half-empty. The economic investment isn't there. Look at Detroit right now (where I used to live, and on which Time Magazine is doing a 12-month series). Detroit's biggest challenge is that almost no one is investing in rebuilding. Hence, the city constantly struggles. The daytime shows are like America's economically abandoned inner cities.

That is an interesting question. I think you have half-answered it: They want to hold on to the time slots.

The bigger issue is that, as Let's Make a Deal is showing, it's not like there is some low cost option that they can just replace soaps with that will outperform soaps. LMAD is doing okay--holding on to the HH numbers but (as I recall) skewing older. So that's not desirable to CBS. They would want better numbers or at least younger numbers. And they haven't figured that out.

Once they figure out how to get more younger numbers, watch the soaps disappear. Until then, they'll wink out at the rate of 1-2 year (which one is next? ATWT? OLTL? DOOL?), and their replacements will either be experiments (like LMAD) or give-backs of time to the affiliates.

Here's one of my main beefs with the networks. Their market shares have been dispersed. In the 70's, all you had were the big three... PBS, and a couple or three independent stations in each market (And many times, those independent stations had agreements to air network shows that were pre-empted by sporting events) The advent of cable has really killed them. Granted, some cable channels are owned by the networks, but many are also owned by the likes of Viacom. Instead of using the cable TV and satellite companies for sponsors and advertizing revenue, they need to ENCOURAGE, through public service annnouncements during prime time and daytime, OVER THE AIR viewership. Especially with an economy in free fall, and the addition of digital sub-channels... a FREE alternative to what people have now would certainly help them hold onto their market share. And it would make the affiliates happy as clams. They need to pump up the advantages:

1: TOTALLY FREE

2: About twice as many channels as before, most markets have over 20 channels

3: Superior HD picture quality due to lack of digital compression

4: Homeowner's associations CAN NOT prohibit a homeowner from installing a rooftop antenna.

If they did this, this economic downturn could have EASILY turned into a big homecoming for the big three. So many of the younger set don't even KNOW you can get TV with an antenna. The people who really MUST have cable will still pay for it, but this was opporotunity to get back millions of viewers wasted.

Did Colleen tell Lily that Lily would have a biological child?