Y&R: Potpourri Thread 2

[Vee]

How long was Scott Hamner at PC? I assume he did General Homicide. That makes a lot of sense now. It's a perfect storm!

[MarkH]

So, I think this is like Murder on the Orient Express. I believe that each ill-begotten player is a small component of the total puzzle.

My personal intuition about MAB is that her particular sin is really just passivity, and a bad feeling for what plays well with Y&R's identity--for when she should slap her team members down. I really do attribute all this fanciful bullsh!t (doppelgangers and deaths) to HS/SH (note the palindrome...I suspect this is a sign that the devil is somehow involved ). But I do think that Sony and CBS offer "notes" and "mandates" that shape things at well. Here is where I feel MAB's passivity comes into play--I'm not sure she pushes back against Sony/CBS as much as she would need to to preserve Y&R. Bill Bell legendarily pushed back. MAB--not so much.

To be clear--Y&R today reflects the steady breakdown of a SYSTEM. MAB deserves full blame as captain of the ship--but she has some sh!tty lieutenants, and the steamer-line that has hired her is guilty of some negligence too.

This is why I am utterly pessimistic (my turn) about the value of regime change. We've already seen Labine, for example, fail at ABC and P&G. Why? Corporate interference. Y&R is now also being "suited" to death. Replacing MAB won't make that disappear.

Yes, Latham SPECIFICALLY credited him with General Homicide. She also SPECIFICALLY credited him with Y&R's Carmen Mesta mystery (the storyline that marked the end of Victoria Rowell, for all intent and purposes).

Why Hamner is one of the few remaining pieces of the Latham team I cannot understand. I'm starting to believe he must exude powerful pheromones with his heterosexual female bosses.

[brimike]

Great post, Mark! As Vee stated, it definitely seems like a "perfect storm" situation.

[Vee]

Well, the thing about Hamner's time at PC is while it wasn't spectacular, many of those stories are looked on fondly by some fans, especially in retrospect given the advent of Caleb. I also enjoyed portions of that whole era with DV, Scott, the murders, etc. but I seem to recall that story spanning a year with people blaming Greg Cooper and Julie, and then the killers turned out to be...Greg Cooper and Julie. Which was lame. I thought overall that period was just okay, and soon slid into bad. I liked a lot of the Rachel Locke/Livvie intro stuff, because it played off of of Kevin's angsty past that he used to talk about with Lucy on GH.

However, chintzy half-hour murder mysteries and macho/borderline misogynist camp, while they may work for other shows (and I thought Hogan's ATWT was very good despite some bad times), are not really a good recipe for a show I call "The Ornate Couch." Both Sheffer and Hamner are, IMO, very geared for ABC, which is probably a big reason why the show now feels like bad ABC. They'd be fine there, probably, better than what we have now, but at Y&R it's oil and water. Who knows where Bell fits in. And Paul Rauch had been making a tacky ABC show on CBS for years with his GL. All we need now is Megan McTavish.

[brimike]

:D

[dm.]

I don't remember this kind of backlash from the fans when LML was writing, but maybe that was because the fans didn't care. So if the fans are angrier and more determined not to watch the show, why is nothing happening?

[brimike]

Somebody (MarkH? Y&RWorldTurner? I forget) made a point of saying expectations were much higher with "a Bell" taking over, so the disappointment/fall is a lot greater.

[Vee]

I think they don't care anymore. I think they figure they've got a winning formula now, because Y&R suddenly resembles all the other soaps fans are so excited and in an uproar over. I'm sure to many of the execs, this feels like Y&R has finally broken out of the staid mold it's been in for years.

And yes, Y&R could be staid and overly conservative (see the treatment of gay characters - almost every other soap on the air that has bothered with a GLBT storyline has allowed a homosexual kiss of some sort), and I do call it an ornate couch. It wasn't for me. But it was clearly for more than enough people given its ratings dominance, and now it is morphing into something unrecognizable even to a casual observer like myself, yet something that is extremely recognizable on my network. You could easily slot Pratt, Passanante or McTavish into this show.

[Sylph]

Which is the scariest thing in the whole affair.

[Vee]

Come to think of it, who wrote the "Palmer's Nazi paintings" story on AMC? Was it Megan?

[MarkH]

For me, that wasn't so much a part of it.

Remember, I was even excited to watch Clear Springs/Out of the Ashes! By LML's departure I saw the flaws, but I wasn't as spitting mad as I am now.

The thing is, for the longest time, I thought MAB was bringing the show back. Characters were back in character. Peripheral players were downplayed, and we had stories driven by core players again. Some critical mistakes were undone.

But after this structural repair (which many found boring) the show was suddenly EXCITING (in a plot driven way) with Sudden Impact. What I thought was that Sudden Impact would be a new temporary way -- a "stimulus program" -- to kick the show into high gear.

What I didn't realize was that Sudden Impact would reflect a new way of writing stories--6-month arcs that begin or end with death. I didn't realize it would be a new form of tale where the "big event" was the punctuation mark, and everything else -- no matter how much it twists history, character, show identity -- would be transformed to fit the punctuation mark.

When it happens over and over, you suddenly realize that Sudden Impact wasn't an exciting deviation, but a "new methodology". Not only does that not excite me, but when you stand back and look at the carnage that happens between the punctuation marks--the dead characters, the stupid Victors, the suddenly crassly materialistic Fishers--you start to lament that they ever started down this "stunt" road in the first place.

For me, it is like waking up and realizing that I had brought too much hope and optimism...really borne out of my need to know my show would be "okay" again. I didn't see what was clearly there.

Now, I'm awake.

[Sylph]

Phew. Finally. What a relief.

[Vee]

There's no reason to condescend to each other personally about the show. I gave Y&R plenty of benefit of the doubt simply because I was tired of the way people like Mark were being spoken to about it. Not because of any particular interest in the program, but I didn't like what was a distinct bullying atmosphere on the board. I did give the gay storyline a chance and it flopped magnificently because the show appears to be written by deeply uncomfortable libertarians.

[brimike]

LOL!!! I don't think there's any need for this self-flagellation. I liked a lot of episodes back in the spring myself. Doesn't mean I should beat myself up for it. The overall arc of the show was a mess, but there were episodes I enjoyed and episodes I thought were crap. I think Colleen's death was a bad move, but there were beats within the episodes I found realistic and very moving. Doesn't mean I don't think the story was a mistake.

[MarkH]

Not so much self-flagellation...but more of a personal need to reconcile where I am now with where I was. Sorry to ruminate out loud.

I STILL find individual episodes to be quite good! My concern still remains, almost entirely, focused on the long-form stories...the underlying plots. I find the day-to-day execution quite good.

EXCEPT--on the topic of production values. I've been noticing more scuffs and marks on the older sets. And yesterday, in the hospital, two actresses had discernibly awful makeup. For Nikki, her orangey-tan line on her forhead stopped JUST before her hairline. Then, the thin ridge of skin between the end of the orange makeup and her hair was pink (this was actually in Crimson Lights). Trivial issue, but Y&R never made mistakes with makeup.

Then, Ashley wore that very nice royal blue V-neck (I can't believe I even notice clothes--not usually). Her face was smooth and well matted. But her exposed chest showed very much the sun damage of a surfer-girl such as she. It was reddish and a little mottled/freckled. Again, on a show that heavily relies on body makeup, it was a surprise to see none on Ashley. I wonder if the new rush-rush-rush production style or makeup staff cutbacks are causing this. Last week, on Adam, I noted him shining (in that same hospital) and his face looked quite coarse. This was not the case in his other scenes that day, but it make me wonder about continuity and makeup.

I'm NOT someone who notices these things...so I'm thinking there is a marked shift in this aspects of production value.