So, about Phillip...

It looks like he leaves Genoa City because he learns the evil cattle ranchers are still after Cane, and he's afraid if he stays in GC, then the evil cattle ranchers will learn Cane's whereabouts. Naturally, he lies to his family to protect them, so they will all assume he is still a deadbeat.

I don't get this. For one thing, isn't he actually putting his family in MORE danger by keeping them in the dark that someone is targeting Cane, and probably them since they may be caught in the crossfire? And if this is about Cane's whereabouts being kept a secret, then why in the he!! was Cane doing photo shoots with Billy for Restless Style?

I guess this could be worse, he could die again (if he isn't killed offcamera that is), but geez.

So, about Phillip...

It looks like he leaves Genoa City because he learns the evil cattle ranchers are still after Cane, and he's afraid if he stays in GC, then the evil cattle ranchers will learn Cane's whereabouts. Naturally, he lies to his family to protect them, so they will all assume he is still a deadbeat.

I don't get this. For one thing, isn't he actually putting his family in MORE danger by keeping them in the dark that someone is targeting Cane, and probably them since they may be caught in the crossfire? And if this is about Cane's whereabouts being kept a secret, then why in the he!! was Cane doing photo shoots with Billy for Restless Style?

I guess this could be worse, he could die again (if he isn't killed offcamera that is), but geez.

I couldn't care less, as long as it gets him the hell off the show.

Apparently that's also the only real criteria the writers have.

Apparently that's also the only real criteria the writers have.

This is so weak. Isn't Kaye richer than Victor? Are we really to believe she couldn't hire people to protect Cane? Hell, she could probably buy Blackwater or some such company and then sell it once the mercenaries have done the job. This show needs to stop treating us like we are idiots.

But oh well, the death of all daytime soaps is coming soon enough, nothing we can do about it...

Not the Bell soaps. Maybe the end is nigh for ATWT, Days and all those insipid ABC soaps, but not the Bell soaps. Never the Bell soaps.

Also, you say that like it's a good thing. Like Y&R going off the air would be a good thing because it would teach the writers a lesson. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) There would be NOTHING good about Y&R being cancelled (if it ever happened). NOTHING.

Not the Bell soaps.

That's what you think. Those shows are expensive to produce and don't bring in the profit they once did. CBS doesn't care about how well they do internationally, because they make no profit from that. They could easily replace both with cheaper programming, and they will in a few years time.

CBS ultimately has the power to cancel them, not the Bell's or Sony.

Maybe the end is nigh for ATWT, Days and all those insipid ABC soaps, but not the Bell soaps. Never the Bell soaps.

If you want to believe that, go ahead, but the trend will suggest otherwise. The Bell soaps might be the last standing soaps, but they too will die at some point over the next 15 years.

Also, you say that like it's a good thing. Like Y&R going off the air would be a good thing because it would teach the writers a lesson. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) There would be NOTHING good about Y&R being cancelled (if it ever happened). NOTHING.

Fans wouldn't have to deal with watching a show that was once better deteriorate into more dreck...

While it would be sad to see it go, many have the satisfaction of knowing the show partly dug its own grave with poisonous writing regimes that overwhelmingly destroyed the structure and credibility of the show for years leading up to its ultimate death.

Edited November 13, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

OMG, no soap is going to last 15 years or even 5 years. The caveat to that is that the cost model seems to be shifting...I don't think internet views will be profitable soon, but the network negotiation with the cable firms and satellite firms (for retransmission fees) is much more likely to bear fruit.

That said, soaps also carry the taint of being "grandma's soap", and the fact that the youngest soap (and oldest skewing soap) is over 22 years old affirms that.

Creative renaissance or not, it's bullsh!t. Without a change in the funding model, the soaps cannot sustain. Recent losses in international licenses (e.g., the noteworthy New Zealand loss of the Sony soaps) further reinforces the idea that revenue is shrinking in every corner. This will NOT be clawed back.

So, it doesn't MATTER what MAB does or if she is replaced. Y&R will be cancelled sooner than later. It may be cancelled sooner than the ratings suggest, assuming CBS gets rid of low-rated ATWT and old-rated B&B. Why be stuck with just one soap? How does that help for promotion and line-up synergy? It doesn't.

This is also why I find calls for new creative team members to be ill-advised. Not only do these shows not have the needed startup costs for new show-runners, but it is UTTERLY UTTERLY POINTLESS.

This is also why I find calls for new creative team members to be ill-advised. Not only do these shows not have the needed startup costs for new show-runners, but it is UTTERLY UTTERLY POINTLESS.

Hence why I've said it doesn't matter anymore, since soaps will be a thing of the past soon enough. I just have the satisfaction of knowing those who caused immense damage to this show will be unemployed and won't get the opportunity to reek similar havoc at another soap.

However, it would be nice to get better writers as the show goes off to air, you know, to know things ended on a high note with a writing team that really understood the show and its characters.

Edited November 13, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

So, it doesn't MATTER what MAB does or if she is replaced. Y&R will be cancelled sooner than later.

Then that makes the replacement of the hacks now at Y&R even more important. If nothing can be done, then just bring in qualified people who can allow the show to go out with dignity. As it is now, we aren't far off from Paul Rauch smashing a cigar into the lens one last time.

Then that makes the replacement of the hacks now at Y&R even more important. If nothing can be done, then just bring in qualified people who can allow the show to go out with dignity. As it is now, we aren't far off from Paul Rauch smashing a cigar into the lens one last time.

VERY TRUE.

Then that makes the replacement of the hacks now at Y&R even more important. If nothing can be done, then just bring in qualified people who can allow the show to go out with dignity. As it is now, we aren't far off from Paul Rauch smashing a cigar into the lens one last time.

VERY TRUE.

But here's the problem. For this to make sense, someone in charge would have to care about the "art". Sony doesn't and CBS doesn't. Bell is in "in control", so they're not going to be motivated to make a change.

There is no financial reason to make a change, and none of the other reasons matter in the slightest to CBS or Sony. Only fans care about "death with dignity"...but since that won't bring more dollars to Sony/CBS, it's sort of irrelevant.

At this point, everyone realizes a new showrunner would have zero impact on ratings. While I can concede that the current regime has probably 'damaged' the show, that just compounds over a decade of damage. That's why I keep pointing out (and I make no claim to being original) that this is a multi-causal process...we can't point the blame at any one person. MAB/Rauch/Sheffer etc. could evaporate, and nothing (from a business perspective) would change...and therefore Y&R would be no closer to creative or financial revival.

For me, it's like an old can of mixed nuts. It's so old, some of the nuts are stale and inedible. Others are still tasty. Until you throw out the can, you take your chances with every nut you pick out. Some of 'em will be great...but you have to tolerate the rancid ones.

No one is going to buy you a new can of nuts, or replenish the contents of this one. That day has passed.

But here's the problem. For this to make sense, someone in charge would have to care about the "art". Sony doesn't and CBS doesn't. Bell is in "in control", so they're not going to be motivated to make a change.

Well, I do think someone at CBS and Sony sees that things aren't working on this show and might be itching to mnake change, but when that comes, who knows?

There is no financial reason to make a change, and none of the other reasons matter in the slightest to CBS or Sony. Only fans care about "death with dignity"...but since that won't bring more dollars to Sony/CBS, it's sort of irrelevant.

Hence why the show will die a fast and painful death.

At this point, everyone realizes a new showrunner would have zero impact on ratings. While I can concede that the current regime has probably 'damaged' the show, that just compounds over a decade of damage. That's why I keep pointing out (and I make no claim to being original) that this is a multi-causal process...we can't point the blame at any one person. MAB/Rauch/Sheffer etc. could evaporate, and nothing (from a business perspective) would change...and therefore Y&R would be no closer to creative or financial revival.

It might have zero impact in the ratings, but I do believe Y&R is one of the few soaps that can rise if the general quality of the storytelling goes up. We've seen this a few times, not major gains, but gains nonetheless. As it stands, this is currently in its third consectutive week of LOSING viewers/households in a SWEEPS month, that can't be good.

No one is calling for a creative or financial revival, but some consistency and stability would be nice with a clear vision steering the show, kind of like what DAYS has been benefiting from for the past year. If a more talented show-runner who gets the basics of Y&R and soaps was hired, who is to say Y&R won't get a similar creative and ratings revival DAYS has gotten?

It's all about taking chances, and in the case with DAYS, those chances paid off tremendously. SONY has to see that more competent people in charge could do the same for its other soap. The question is just a matter of when.

No one is going to buy you a new can of nuts, or replenish the contents of this one. That day has passed.

We don't know that for sure, I believe Y&R still has a few years left, a lot can change in a year business and behind the scenes-wise.

Edited November 14, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

But here's the problem. For this to make sense, someone in charge would have to care about the "art". Sony doesn't and CBS doesn't. Bell is in "in control", so they're not going to be motivated to make a change.

There is no financial reason to make a change, and none of the other reasons matter in the slightest to CBS or Sony. Only fans care about "death with dignity"...but since that won't bring more dollars to Sony/CBS, it's sort of irrelevant.

At this point, everyone realizes a new showrunner would have zero impact on ratings. While I can concede that the current regime has probably 'damaged' the show, that just compounds over a decade of damage. That's why I keep pointing out (and I make no claim to being original) that this is a multi-causal process...we can't point the blame at any one person. MAB/Rauch/Sheffer etc. could evaporate, and nothing (from a business perspective) would change...and therefore Y&R would be no closer to creative or financial revival.

For me, it's like an old can of mixed nuts. It's so old, some of the nuts are stale and inedible. Others are still tasty. Until you throw out the can, you take your chances with every nut you pick out. Some of 'em will be great...but you have to tolerate the rancid ones.

No one is going to buy you a new can of nuts, or replenish the contents of this one. That day has passed.

So... Whatcha sayin' is: what matters to the network brass and Sony (profit) - won't change even if a new writing regime gets established. But it might matter to the viewers, because the dreck might turn into gold. So your defeatist essay is OK, but it's still protective of Maria Arena & minions.

If you have a choice between watching vomit and first-rate TV, if everything else stays the same, of course a normal person would choose the latter.

But here's the problem. For this to make sense, someone in charge would have to care about the "art". Sony doesn't and CBS doesn't. Bell is in "in control", so they're not going to be motivated to make a change.

There is no financial reason to make a change, and none of the other reasons matter in the slightest to CBS or Sony. Only fans care about "death with dignity"...but since that won't bring more dollars to Sony/CBS, it's sort of irrelevant.

At this point, everyone realizes a new showrunner would have zero impact on ratings.

MAB certainly had quite a low impact on ratings with her arrival. Then people said that the upward trend during the glory days of fall 08/winter 09 were proof that the show was back. I think that competent people could make the ratings go up somewhat.

There's also a lot of reason besides "art" to make a change. This show is apparently run by a producer who has little experience with today's small soap budgets. Not only in the awful production values, but also in how to properly utilize your cast and their contractual cycles. Some of these people are probably being paid to stay away because the show just doesn't care about using them for more than filler appearances.

Not to mention that a competent set of writers and producers would know how to bring in new characters, which this team has been abysmal at. They want to dump the vets, or force them to take huge cuts, yet by cluttering the canvas with unpleasant, unwatchable new faces and poor recasts, they just invite viewers to resist change. They even manage to severely damage stories that could have easily written themselves, like Adam slowly replacing Victor on the canvas.

So, in my opinion, the choices are...

a) allow the show to slide into an ignoble death, burning money hand over fist and letting viewers know that Sony has no standards

B ) replace the hacks with competent caretakers, who will either turn off the life support, or perhaps, manage to perform a miracle.

Is there really any reason to allow such untalented people to keep their jobs even if the show is ending? Reward them for what they have helped kill?

If it were up to me, then as soon as Sony is legally allowed, I would replace Rauch and Sheffer, at the very least.

Edited November 13, 200916 yr by CarlD2

Sara A. Bibel did a brief interview with the Hayes's where they talked about Bill Bell. Everything Susan mentions in her first response, is everything missing from Y&R today with this current poisonous writing regime.

http://www.fancast.com/blogs/deep-soap/deep-soap-days-stars-tell-all-at-fan-event/

Bill and Susan Hayes Reveal How Bill Bell Changed Their Lives

On Working with Bill Bell:

SH: He was a storytelling genius. He was tasteful but he knew when to cross the line, to follow the move of cultural history. He was always reading the headlines and following current events and weaving it into the story just enough. His stories had an edge without violence and they were very, very absorbing. They were always emotionally driven. We knew him very well. He cast me. He cast Billy. Years later after we had known him as a friend, stayed in his home, he trained my mother [Elizabeth Harrower] to be a writer. I owe Bill Bell for the best job I ever had, my happy marriage, my mother’s retirement fund, and the joy of his friendship and getting to do his material all those years.

BH: You throw the word genius around. Anybody can be a genius. Bill Bell was a true genius. If all the stories he wrote had been in novels, he would have written thousands of novels. He knew story and he knew character.

SH: The show had been pink slipped and then Bill Bell came on. There would have been no Days of Our Lives if he had not come on at that difficult time.

BH: It had run six months and they gave it another six months. They told Bill Bell, “You will be the headwriter for the last six months of the show.” During that six months he was so good that they forgot what they said because he turned it around with genius writing. He was instrumental in our lives, in seeing something between the two of us that nobody else saw. He wrote flirty scenes. He wrote love scenes. He put our characters together, then kept us apart.

Your mother also played Charlotte Ramsey, the woman Jill thought was her biological mother, on The Young & The Restless.

SH: That came at a time when she was in chemo. The fact that the whole Y&R family embraced her and gave her that job at that time in her life was this wonderful gift at the end end of her life — which she didn’t want to end. She loved [bill Bell] more than she loved us or my father.

Edited November 14, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner