Jump to content

Alice In Wonderland


JackPeyton

Recommended Posts

  • Members

Thanks. I will have to check this out. I get so angry over footage that was destroyed, whether it be this, the Our Gang shorts, Doctor Who, whatever. At least they were able to get this much, which sounds like quite a bit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 63
  • Created
  • Last Reply
  • Members

I have most of her books, but now that The New Yorker has access to all of their backissues to subscribers online, I've come across a number of her reviews that I hadn't read before. HAHA re Madame X-it's too bad that Ross Hunter didn't manage to get Doug Sirk out of retirement to direct that as was planned--coulda been a great final melodrama in the Ross Hunter cycle (he also tried to convince Sirk to direct my trash fave, 1961's Back Street as a followup to Imitation of Life but he didn't--again it coulda made the film truly great instead of a camp laugh).

Which movies would she include in "sick soul of America"? I thought she liked Midnight Cowboy, for example...

Of course I've seen Thoroughly Modern Millie :D I love it, though it falls into the late 60s/early 70s bloated movie musicals that killedoff thegenre category--it's too long and meanders, and only really the title song is great. But the performances are so much fun--I'm pretty certain it was a flop when it came out (as was the more serious Andrews vehicle, Star). Ten or so years ago it was adapted into a hit Broadway musical where they wisely kept the title song and "Jimmy" and the rest was all new stuff--the score AND the story work WAY better, it's been massively improved even if you're missing the fun of Andrews, Mary Tyler Moore and Carol Channing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

She thought of films like, I believe, Life and Times of Judge Roy Bean and Little Big Man, as being in that category. Easy Rider too possibly, I can't remember.

There are a lot of reviews of hers I got a kick out of (I think her best were the mid 60s, and then another flourish in the early 80s). Georgie Girl, Morgan A Suitable Case for Treatment, et al. I think I liked her reviews more when she hated the movie.

I'd heard about the Broadway version of Millie. I'm glad it did well. The original was too long, I just enjoyed Bea Lillie, Carol Channing, and a few other moments, like MTM and Julie stomping their feet to keep the elevator going.

What did you think of the theatrical version of Willy Wonka?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I agree, her reviews were all the better to read when she was ripping something apart (The New Yorker at the same time had a brilliance dance critics, Arlene Croce whose writing was nearly exactly the same LOL--musta been something about the magazine--yet I've never read better written reviews of dance even if she liked nearly nothing).

*Which* Chocolate Factory stage version? (Tangent--I always thought the book and movies are in a way a kid's version of the slasher film--one by one bratty kids are "killed off" in more and more elaborate ways LOL). I don't believe there is a standard version of it on stage--not one that's played Broadway or the West End anyway. I think there's a kids school version you can do with the 70s Leslie Bricusse/Anthony Newley score, and I've read there's a new version in the works produced by Warner Bros with Marc Shaiman and the other songwriters of Hairspray doing the score. There's also a new opera (!) version to premier, titled The Golden Ticket.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Oh, I thought you meant there was a different stage production. Sorry.

I know what you mean about the material. I think it was a way to vent about bratty kids under the guise of teaching a lesson. It didn't work for me though because I ended up rooting for Violet and Veruca, at least in the movie.

The weirdest part of Pauline Kael as a critic were her book titles. I guess she came up with a lot of those to get attention or help sales but some of the titles, they could be cute, like I Lost It At the Movies, but then when you get to titles like Taking It All In, you're sort of...really?

She also wrote a review I was very much in agreement with where she blasted the Disney films as the idea of "family" pictures, as she said that she did not enjoy hearing children scream and cry at the slaughter and abuse in films like Bambi and Dumbo. She then recommended family pictures which were fun and entertaining and not traumatic. I was so glad to hear someone say that, because I thought that Bambi in particular was so horrifying at the start and that was hard to get through as a child.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

And, by the way, Eric — how come you don't mention Danny Elfman's music (for Alice)? Which got dropped from Wolfman, then they got it back, with additional music by Williams' faaaaamed orchestrator Conrad Pope.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Andthere I disagree with you and Pauline. As much as I think some of the best recent children's films, think Miyazaki's My Neighbour Totoro, are fairly low key, I strongly believe that seeing and then understanding a film like Pinocchio or Bambi as a kid is a powerful experience. I saw Snow White when I was 3 and by all accounts was TERRIFIED of the Queen and all that--yet it also fascinated me and even at a young age got me to sorta, in a safe way, deal with some of that (ditto the Witch in Oz, the Pink Elephant dream part in Dumbo, etc, etc). Like the best kids fantasy novels and fairy tales, I really believe kids need some sort of threat or danger there, and I also subscribe to the psychological theory behind such things (as spelled out most famously in the book The Uses of Enchantment). Also, keep in mind when I was growing up my parents were very cautious of what we watched, more so when it came to violence than sex--but I had friends who at 7 or 8 would be watching Friday the 13th or Pet Semetary! I can't remember what films she suggested as alternatives, and no doubt some of them are faves of mine, yet I think the great early, powerful Disney films, etc are important. There's a reason that many of my fave films as a small kid did kinda scare me, yet I grew with them and now love them--stuff like The Last Unicorn, Oz, etc. Anyway... (Though oddly the film that gave me the worst nightmares was the Care Bear Movie, which I think is crap, but it had a green faced ghoul that came out of a magic book--just her head--and hypnotized a kid *shiver* I remember I couldn't even look at the movie poster for years! LOL)

That said Bambi didn't traumatize me the way it did some--I think maybe cuz I was a pretty cynical and gloomy child anyway, LOL. It was one of the first novels I read as a kid though--when I was in grade 1, my mom had to fight with the librarian to let me read it, cuz she assumed there was no way I'd manage to and wanted to give me the Disney picture book (funny the things you remember).

Sylph, I didn't mention it cuz I had no idea! I'm a mixed Elfman fan, though at his best I do love his work. So wait--much of what we'll hear in Alice originated from his un used Wolfman score? (and, after so much anticipation, what a non event has Wolfman become--I don't even know anyone who has bothered to see it!)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

No, no, now I see I've made a mess. The Alice music is all original.

I was just mentioning in passing that they dropped him from Wolfman, but then got him back. However, since he was busy composing and finishing Alice and other stuff, they had to use additional music.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

The movie was fun, but did not blow me away! Not very impressed with Depp but I adored Bonham Carter (wish she was given more time to just spread her wings and flyyyyy) and Hathaway was great as the Queen. I am starting to really, really love her.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Oh, My!! I had forgotten completely about the Rex Harrison version! Yes, that WAS a bloated mess. But there were alot of those in the 50's and 60's.... I guess you could argue that Dr. Dolittle was the last of a dying breed (though some people would Argue Sgt. Pepper and Xanadu fits into that category) And yes, Jerry Lewis does fit into that category... I hated his films with a passion. My point about the lack of bloated messes in the 70's, was that movies moved more into different niches, Sci-fi, Disaster movies, and Car chase/Trucker/Outlaw movies really dominated.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.



  • Recent Posts

    • What else? #May4th

      Please register in order to view this content

       
    • In my usual account on my most used video hosting site with the video title  DAYS 1-8-15 Will & Paul Sex This is an edit I began when I was first teaching myself to edit & at that time I couldn't make it do what I wanted it to do. I pulled it up & finished it this morning. 
    • Or Megan is shot as retaliation for Dave's unpaid gambling debts...while Julie confesses she's the biological mother of Special Guest Star Barry Bostwick's little boy.
    • Finland seemed such an odd choice for a location shoot. ATWT went to Greece and later Spain while GL had Tenerife and there were others in that timeframe. But Finland not being a known tourist destination or offering the tropical/sunny atmosphere usually associated with location shoots seems off brand. Maybe they were negotiating a deal with a tourist association and it fell through.
    • I was talking about 1986, but the glimpses of 1982 are about the same. 
    • I skimmed some of the 1982 synopses; Steve was planning on an opening an office in Finland, and I think Jim went there as part of the preparation. That probably was a big issue; AW had already gone to San Diego that year, with Rachel/Steve/Mitch. And to upstate NY with Pete and Diana. I wonder if upstate was as expensive lol  AW in 1982 has always fascinated me, because of how messy it was 
    • That makes sense. What a messy time for the show. And any changes they made were mostly for the worse.
    • The transition from Neal to Adam was very abrupt, and to be honest my theory is that the character of Neal was designed so that we think he is super shady but then it turns out that he was on the side of good all along so Neal could have seamlessly become a hero of the BCPD with no need for Adam. I don't know whether Robert Lupone was hired on a short contract or if he was fired from a longer-term contract because they decided they wanted someone who was more of a leading man type, but I can imagine a scenario where Charles Grant did both the undercover Egyptian treasure/flirt with Victoria and the straighter-arrow day to day police investigation. But in my imagined scenario the MJ prostitution plotline probably doesn't exist and instead he probably continues a relationship with Victoria. The story seems very odd to me. I assume that David Canary would have been included only because a plotline where Steve is going to Finland in which only Rachel is seen in actual Finland seems unlikely. The synopses explicitly mention that Alice can't go with Steve but would whoever was playing Alice at that time have had the kind of clout to get the remote cancelled? It also strikes me as unlikely that production would have approved the expensive location shoot and *then* cancelled it only because of jealousy. It seems more likely that they rejected it because of the expense but then the jealousy part got added to the gossip speculatively, possibly because while it was being worked out they justified not including more castmembers because of the expense. 
    • My comment has nothing to do with cast resentment, but does relate to the Finland location shoot: It may be a coincidence, but Jim Matthews died in Finland in 1982.  Hugh Marlowe's final episode was in April 1982, but the character probably didn't die untll May or June. (I'm unable to find the character's date of death, only the date of Marlowe's final episode). SInce Jim and Rachel had very little interaction after around 1975, it is unlikely Jim's death in Finland had any connection to Rachel's potential visit, but the choice to have Jim die in that location at that time is a head-scratcher.  I'm sure the writers sent Jim on an extended trip (and off-screen) because of Marlowe's illness.  But Finland seems like a strange choice considering the (then) recently cancelled location shoot.  
    • I totally understand your sloths concern about it and I agree with you. Let’s hope the show plays it’s cards right.    Further comments about the last few episodes: - I liked that one of the attendees was filming the scene. That’s realistic. I wonder if the writers will follow up with that.  - Martin and Smitty trying to drag Leslie out was very heteronormative, so perfectly in line with them two as characters lol.    As for the future: it’s obvious the Duprees will come to accept Eva one way or another, but the rivalry with Kay should be here for the long term   On the topic of acting: the only bad actors I’m seeing are Ted and Derek. Tomas hasn’t proven to be either good or bad, so far, but he’s certainly mediocre and uncharismatic. He sucks the energy out of the scenes and I don’t see any couple of women ever vying for him. 
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy