I'm not defending Nelson Branco or his style of reporting. The bottom line, however, appears to be that Chris Engen had gay-themed scenes, and quit over them. And I've seen no one dispute the Patricia Mauceri news which has been expounded upon by multiple people. Only one of them has denied Mauceri had issues with the gay-friendly material. At best, some reports have parsed their language to say she didn't want to play the character of Carlotta as supportive; those versions of the story have made no comment either way about her motives, but simply stripped out the IRL portion from other versions of the same report. For all the screaming you guys claiming I'm jumping to conclusions and slandering innocent people, you're certainly jumping to your own, taking those very parsed versions of the story - and their lack of discussion of Mauceri's motives - as gospel, as though their lack of detail proves there is nothing to it. They don't say anything, or prove anything. They don't comment on her issues (or lack thereof) at all, but nevertheless you suggest that the absence of a statement proves PM had no issues with gay-friendly material. The same way you suggest that because Chris Engen did not, in fact, leave over a gay kiss, but rather left immediately before other gay material with Yani Gellman, then that means his quitting was not gay-related at all. It's the worst kind of deliberate ignorance, insisting on not seeing the forest for the trees just to prove a personal point, and I think you guys know that. You're not stupid.

I'm also so, so, so tired of hearing these crazy sermons about the evils of Y&R and why don't we condemn it and how dare I attack poor, adorable Chris Engen without giving Y&R proper vitriol, why, why, why, etc etc ad infinitum. Look, you guys already have like eighteen long-ass threads where you whine about Y&R. As the length of this and other discussion proves, absolutely no one is keeping you from making your voices heard about Y&R, though I seriously wish you would all either condense or at least take downers. That said, it's not my call, so good news, your collective ongoing nervous breakdown will continue unabated. Go nuts. Personally, I don't care about Y&R. I have, however, watched some of the gay storyline(s), and I agree with you that a lot of it is either tacky, amateurish or on occasion, outright tawdry and exploitative. I've said so before, I believe. I have nothing to hide. Those scenes with Adam and Rafe are played as sheer camp, like something out of a '70s or '80s primetime soap. The stuff with Phillip so far is like an '80s TV movie, or maybe a campier version of Making Love. So yes, I think Y&R is at least guilty of these stories being tacky, and in the case of Adam and Rafe, guilty of the story being either borderline homophobic or at the very least, seeming awfully antiquated. I don't object to Adam seducing Rafe to further his personal ends because hetero or homo, such a storyline is a classic soap staple; the way it is done, however, is just goofy. So are these stories goofy, antiquated, campy, maybe borderline phobic? Yes. But so what? Y&R's lack of good taste does not mean I can't also be disgusted with Chris Engen. It's not as big of a deal as you're making it out to be as you all sit here pounding your breasts screaming that we aren't lacing into Y&R enough while persecuting these poor, poor homophobic actors. I mean, aren't you tearing the show apart enough for all of us? And have you maybe, just maybe considered the distinct possibility that nobody cares about trashing Y&R anymore because you have all run it into the ground and made it so [!@#$%^&*] boring?

I so hoped you'd be here, marceline. I was waiting for you to explain to me my triple-secret gay agenda and how I am in league with Nelson Branco, a man I have never met, never defended or spoken to, but apparently share a sexual orientation with. We seem to have gotten our wires crossed last time when you decided that as a somewhat more uppity homosexual, I was unworthy to process and receive your direct speech. Good news: You've got another chance. When you find the time to deign to notice us peons, please articulate for me the "my gay or the highway" agenda that I, Mr. Branco, and any other gay posters offended by Chris Engen or Patricia Mauceri's (alleged) behavior share. Or not. I'm sure it all just goes back to how your views are being stifled about Y&R and OLTL, and by "stifled" we of course mean "read and not always responded to with total agreement." Never change.

I don't really care if I get warned or banned but I've just got to say, you people are way over the fuckin' top. Not only do you seem to knee-jerk attack anyone who dares to be offended by these various gay-themed soap scandals, but you always, always, always have to find a way to tie that completely unrelated [!@#$%^&*] back to your personal feelings of persecution regarding your opinions of Y&R. Even with people who don't fuckin' watch Y&R! Constantly hammering us for daring to be offended by Chris Engen is not even about Chris Engen for you; it's about Y&R and MAB and Branco's approval of MAB, and your propping Engen up as some beacon of la revolucion and "actor integrity" in what you consider dark times for the show. Look, how you feel about Y&R is your business. But I would like to think you'd all have a little more consideration for those of us not quite so invested in it out there, and a little less cynicism so as to consider how your applying that viewpoint (about the overall program) to what seems to be a simple case of sad homophobia might make the rest of us feel. You're making a fannish "political" point about the show's production team out of an incident that, good story or bad, in-character or out of character, genuinely saddens gay and lesbian viewers. And then you're basically implying we're "siding with the Man" if we feel that way. Who are you to tell us how to feel? What about people who don't like Y&R today anymore than you do, but also are disgusted with Engen?

SON has always been vapid and cliquish but this increasingly strange war making every other thread into some game of "tit for tat" about "Y&R zombies versus Y&R haters" is really pathetic, and it not only dilutes your own arguments and people's opinions of you (whereas people's opinions of me are already as low as they could possibly get), but it makes people less inclined to care about what you think of Y&R, and possibly even more sympathetic to the damn show. I hope you someday realize how you've all started to come across. This [!@#$%^&*] ain't healthy, and I think I'm far from the only person who stopped listening to this ranting and raving about the Great Satan that is Y&R a long time ago.

At this point they should just change the name of the forum to "Y&R and other soaps network board" Do we really need four whole threads about the show clogging up the Discuss The Soaps board?

As long as we are talking about Nelson why is he always such a prick to Catlin Van Zandt? today he wrote "Scream queen Caitlin Van Zandt (Ashlee) recently became engaged to Daniel Tighe. Good luck with that, buddy."

That is so unnecessary! If he doesn't like her acting or the character she plays, that's fine. But there's no need for him to get personal like that!

That is so unnecessary! If he doesn't like her acting or the character she plays, that's fine. But there's no need for him to get personal like that!

Well he's NEVER been professional or mature, why would he start now?

That is so unnecessary! If he doesn't like her acting or the character she plays, that's fine. But there's no need for him to get personal like that!

That's just how Nelson rolls. He talks [!@#$%^&*] about Caitlin, yet I don't see any gentleman callers sniffing up his tree...

At this point they should just change the name of the forum to "Y&R and other soaps network board" Do we really need four whole threads about the show clogging up the Discuss The Soaps board?

The way it was the "DAYS/GH and other soaps network board" or the "OLTL Ron Carlivati Wanking and other soaps network board" before now?

Calling attention to a problem does not excuse exacerbating it.

The way it was the "DAYS/GH and other soaps network board" or the "OLTL Ron Carlivati Wanking and other soaps network board" before now?

Very valid point.

The fact that people are talking about soaps at ALL anymore is a blessing. Would people rather it be a ghost town?