It's not opinion of mine. This is a fact. Ratings went UP during Shick cabin sex. The Shick/Phick stories clearly have had an impact on the ratings. This is not like Lane where 50 fans write in all the time but don't have the real world numbers to back it up. This triangle is or was the bread & butter of Y&R. Now, though they are so ruined, it may no longer be the case. Recently though, this was the big story. The Chancellors have not impacted ratings like Shick/Phick for a long long time. We would have to go back several years. Shick/Phick was the goose that laid the golden egg. Now they've gone and killed the goose but it was a ratings winner while it lasted.

Despite naysayers elsewhere, I suspect you are right.

That threesome/quad SELLS SODs (obviously) more than any other soap characters.

I think THIS upsets me the most. It seems to me like Jess/Jill are being muted or placed on the backburner to prop Katherine and Bell-pet Jeanne Cooper(what little we see of her post-Murphy marriage anyway). So what if Jess Walton is 62?! I'm not saying she should be in our faces 24/7, but she should have alot more to do than plot revenge with trash like Gloria and Jeff, have an evil scowl on her face, a drink in her hand, and using her neck and eye roll to swoop away the bangs from her forehead. Jill(like Nikki) should have a greater presence on this show instead of being a glorified dayplayer.

Yes!

The absences of Jill & Nikki are horrible.

But this the same Daytime climate that lets Genie Francis, Julia Barr & Martha Byrne walk.

Ashley on B&B was better than anything Eileen Davidson has done since she took over for Shari Shattuck. I truly believe that. Brad Bell has a problem staying interested in characters or stories (especially good ones lol), but without him I don't think the character would've ever recovered. From the day she stepped into the fashion world Ashley was alive. They took ten years off her with the great styling from the hair to the makeup to the wardrobe. On Y&R she was looking like Jack's grandma towards the end, but they took all that off of her. From there she was written as a smart, sexy, sophisticated business woman and she fit perfectly into that cast. They had a great template for years of story had they choose to write for the character. The Ashley I'm seeing on Y&R doesn't inspire me to want to see more stories. Whatever your feelings are for the Adam story, she's simply an idea. A total f.ucking loony nut. She reminds me of Katherine Helmond's character from SOAP. The difference is, on a soap opera parody, stupidity is fine, but on a real soap? No. I don't even know if I'm supposed to care about her. Ashley and Victor are such extreeme supporting players it's hard to tell.

Ashley on B&B was Ashley.

Ashley on Y&R is SabrinaLite.

I posted this in the episode thread, but it's probably a better fit here...

I could possibly in some weird way understand if Amber had sex with Deacon to free Daniel. But that wasn't simply the case, it wasn't enough that Amber simply has sex with Deacon, but he had to impose his "terms" on her and the sex they were to have. This made it all worse.

Also, maybe, possibly, I could have had less resistance to this story and episode had so much misogyny not been apart of this show the way it currently is.

And, had Sheffer not pulled a similar situation over at DAYS with EJ/Sami, I could have taken it as a simple mistake or misguided intentions. However, the fact is, one of this show's HW's tried a similar situation before and it backfired on his ass. Surely, these people never heard about learning from their mistakes.

Then there's "my vision and my show" Maria Arena Bell, who is a woman, and lets all this misogyny slip onto her show.

And there's the fact they're telling a B&B story on Y&R. Who cares? Take it to the show these two characters have history on and the show that has a history of making women seem like cartoons and victims.

I'm sorry, there is no way to defend what Deacon did today, and I don't care about how sexy Kanan is or whatever.

Edited July 24, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

It's storytelling like this that drove this show back down to record low ratings...

Your "vision" and your "show" isn't popular with audiences, Queen Marie Antoinette, erm, Maria Arena Bell.

Edited July 24, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

I think the ratings increase around the time of cabin sex was less about people wanting to see that triangle than about many people wanting to finally see Sharon and Nick reconnect. People at the time thought the story was going somewhere, moving in a new direction. The Chancellors are a family, not a couple, so they're held to different expectations. I really do believe the Chancellors are an important part of the show for many viewers, and could have filled a void which has been left by the disintegration of the Abbott and Newman families. The show botched most of the key events which could have built the Chancellors up, and now the opportunity has passed.

I'm not sure either couple in this quad is bringing in the ratings. Sure, people are talking on the boards but message board people are don't seem to have boxes. The Sharon and Nick cabin sex (4.0) was in the middle of some decent stories so I'm not sure the reconnection was the reason for the 25,000 increase in viewers. Brad was missing (we knew he was probably dead), the Marge/Katherine story was blasting on all cylinders and Lane/Chilly was hitting some interesting beats regarding the baby. When the quad has been on their own or during duller stories, the ratings have been far from stellar. The "Cassie death day/I could be having your baby" reveal was the lowest day of the week (3.5) and lost viewers on the following Monday in addition to lowering their share (3.4). But the same could be said for Nick and Phyllis. I don't think any of their big days are keeping people near the TV's either. My point, as a fan of one of these couples, is that the writers have over estimated our desire to see these four ping pong. If they'd had Nick leave after the first cabin sex or stay gone after the second, then work the rest of the story, it would have been better. But it seems they were so intent on having Sharon tell Nick she was pregnant on the anniversary of Cassie's death, that the story had to be stalled with all of this back and forth. If even fan girls/boys don't care, your bread and butter story is now only good for croutons.

This Deacon/Amber borderline rape crap is rightfully turning out to be unpopular on many other boards across the net.

Leave it to these idiots heading Y&R's writing team to add more fuel to their backlash.

Hmm, Nelson again criticizes Y&R in today's Suds Report:

http://tvguide.sympatico.msn.ca/Soaps/Suds/Articles/090724_suds_report_NB

• Why is this show sucking arse? Yes, Y&R was much better this week (Monday’s Canadian episode was stellar), but this show has sunk in quality overnight. We in the press have sung your praises and to say we’re feeling let down is an understatement. Thom Bierdz’s comeback may go down as one of the worst in soap history. Yikes. Everyone on this show has been fighting to take credit for Y&R’s creative success, but I wonder who will be fighting to take credit for its descent? Maybe Maria Arena Bell has been too busy writing Michael Jackson’s funeral and death? Because that’s been the story of the year.

But how long will THAT last before he or anyone else appointed co-HW starts constructively criticizing "(Her) show, (her) vision"? Could this be the reason why Josh Griffith got pushed out? I mean, from what I understand, he's no Bill Bell or Doug Marland, but I have a hard time believing that he didn't at least try to play nice with Maria and get her to see(from his own experience) that her stories were not what viewers wanted to see, no matter how fast or slow paced they were. He has been vilified by the press, but seeing what's on the screen now, you have to wonder if Josh wasn't trying to do his best to reign in her bad habits and qualities.

Speaking of Josh Griffith, I'm beginning to wonder if maybe he should have stayed - not as EP, but as HW. I actually think he and Hogan would've worked well as a team. With Josh's character-driven and nauseatingly upbeat style and Hogan's plot-driven and dark style, they could have balanced each other out nicely.

I'm wishing Eileen had kept her ass on B&B for another go round with Ridge and Brooke. But who knows, Brad probably would have done the same thing to poor Ashley too...

I loved Ashley on B&B. She breathed new life into that show, and vice versa. I was hoping for a Thorne/Ashley pairing, but no such luck.

Right now the show is in such bad shape that I expect viewers and the press to become more and more critical over time. My question is, how soon will they take notice and change?

Maybe Maria will wake up now that Nelson Branco, her chief sycophant, seems to be turning on her.

This woman has had so many chances, and she's appraoching her two year at this show in the fall. Two years was how long Latham lasted, I believe.

We'll see if Maria and Company, hopefully, get canned by her two year mark with the show.

Maria's had too many chances since she single-handedly gave this show the biggest ratings erosion in its history, and now that the show seems to be going back in that direction, her chances have run up. If she and her henchmen can't handle this show properly, it's time for them to resign or be fired.

Edited July 25, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

This woman has had so many chances, and she's appraoching her two year at this show in the fall. Two years was how long Latham lasted, I believe.

We'll see if Maria and Company, hopefully, get canned by her two year mark with the show.

Maria's had too many chances since she single-handedly gave this show the biggest ratings erosion in its history, and now that the show seems to be going back in that direction, her chances have run up. If she and her henchmen can't handle this show properly, it's time for them to resign or be fired.

Brimike already told us, LML was cancelled for mismanagement...not ratings or creative direction.

I hear no evidence Y&R is mismanaged in a fiscal/logistic sense. So it's not gonna happen. It's more productive to think about ways this regime can get its game back.

Brimike already told us, LML was cancelled for mismanagement...not ratings or creative direction.

I hear no evidence Y&R is mismanaged in a fiscal/logistic sense. So it's not gonna happen. It's more productive to think about ways this regime can get its game back.

What do you call keeping players on contract that you never use? Keeping a bloated writing team? Useless crossovers from a lower rated show?

And there are no ways this regime can get it back. People have been saying that about Goutman since Sheffer was let go, same for Brad Bell since S-I-L Boink, and Guza well, since he came back after McTavish.

It's useless to think that this team will change its course. They are set in their ways. And this kind of product reeks of complacency and desperation.

I am this close to dumping the show. Honestly, it feels like every day I tune in and it insults in intelligence.

I am a few days behind and have absolutely no need to watch it because I know it is bad.

Then again, if I drop it there are so many things that I am losing, from my work on other sites to this forum... however, it might just be what I need.

For the Canadian viewers, was Monday's US episode stellar or was Nelson exaggerating?

This show is on fire. Literally. The self-combustion will be over any minute now.

And any minute now it can be proclaimed to be worse than Latham's vision.