I care even less about this so called great Billy/Mac romance.

I think that if they'd give CF a chance out of the forced Billy/Mac whatever, we'd see something different. Outside of the Billy scenes, I think we're seeing something good out of CF and her work, but 30 seconds later she's foced back into the Billy/Mac lameness. I actually put more on Y&R and Maria and company--I'm sure this got billed as the "great romance redux" and the pressure on those scenes was big, and set up for failure, as they spent months having Billy moved on.

They need to cut they Billy/Mac losses and give CF a chance to grow into the role without the "romance redux" pressures.

And LMAO about Colleen leaving...

CF just doesn't have the presence or spark needed for any role on the show. It isn't about her playing the role in a reserved fashion. She has no aura, no soul about her. Katherine Moenning, film-level prod values & endless takes may have carried her on the L-Word but this is daytime. You have to bring it all on your own. She can't create even a tiny spark with Billy Miller or Jeanne Cooper or Tricia Cast or Liz Hendrickson? Eileen Davidson is acting against a cell phone and Chris Engen against a computer and they are on fire. On fire against inanimate objects. But Clementine Ford can't freaking deliver against OTHER ACTORS? Please, the more I think about what a failure this actress is as Mac, the more I get annoyed. We could have had a much better storyline these last few months with Billy & Chloe trying to awkwardly make their marriage work with Billy banging bimbos (Sharon or other women) on the side.

Suspects in Mac murder mystery? #1 Chloe. That's okay, we'll forgive her anyway. #2 Amber. Wants to be Kay's only granddaughter figure. #3 Cane. Wants to be the only Chancellor heir. I am sure I can come up with more.

Edited May 17, 200916 yr by cara mia

IF it's Nick's baby. There is a very good chance, with these writers, that Sharon could have a bouncing baby Abbott BOY.

I suspect there are lots of game changers ahead of us.

ETA - My rationale for an Abbott boy would be that it ties Sharon together with the two most important families on the show. It also ties the quad together for years to come regardless of how they are paired up. If it's Nick's? Doesn't happen. Personally, I think it's Billy's with Jack stepping in to raise the baby as his own.

Also, Sharon and Billy had a ton of chemistry. I would be surprised if that was not revisited down the road.

They missed their opportunity to do this with Nikki when she lost her baby with Jack. I still mourn the loss of the drama that child would have brought to the show if it had lived. Nikki constantly torn between her child with Victor and her child with Jack and the rivalry that could have ensued would have been great.

Now they have their chance to do it again with Sharon. It won't be as good as it would have been with Nikki, but I still want it to happen.

They missed their opportunity to do this with Nikki when she lost her baby with Jack. I still mourn the loss of the drama that child would have brought to the show if it had lived. Nikki constantly torn between her child with Victor and her child with Jack and the rivalry that could have ensued would have been great.

Now they have their chance to do it again with Sharon. It won't be as good as it would have been with Nikki, but I still want it to happen.

This is very interesting, and yes the baby as an Abbott creates alot more story potential. If its Nick's, its just a plot point to reunite Sharon and Nick. Hmmm....

This is very interesting, and yes the baby as an Abbott creates alot more story potential. If its Nick's, its just a plot point to reunite Sharon and Nick. Hmmm....

And Shick can always have their little girl down the road.

I think that if they'd give CF a chance out of the forced Billy/Mac whatever, we'd see something different.

Mac should have been the one to "heal" Kevin--to get through to him--not Amber. Mac-Kevin should have a lot of potential.

I'd also like to see Mac bristle against JT. It is telling, at this week's wedding, that Mac is essentially treated as interchangeable with Colleen.

You have to bring it all on your own.... Eileen Davidson is acting against a cell phone and Chris Engen against a computer and they are on fire. On fire against inanimate objects. But Clementine Ford can't freaking deliver against OTHER ACTORS? Please, the more I think about what a failure this actress is as Mac, the more I get annoyed.

Stop it. You are convincing me.

Not to mentioned, Stafford should be paired with someone that doesn't make her look so damn old. Television is a visual medium after all...

OK, I'm going to stop bringing stuff over from the old thread, but I have to address this. Television is a visual media, so maybe they should stop pairing Victor with women who are 20-30 years his junior. Doesn't Sharon make Jack look old? Or is the idea that younger women make old men look young, but somehow younger men make women look old? The blatant sexism (not directing this at the person who posted because it's an issue in the genre/media itself) is unbelievable.

Soaps are still watched primarily by women and yet somehow the people who make them think we would rather watch old men sexing up women 20 or 30 years their junior. Think again IIC. I'm not a huge Phick fan, but watching a women get a guy who is (only) a few years her junior is way closer to any fantasy I'm interested in watching than watching Victor and Jack (or anyone else) do women their children's age. And if it makes her look older, so what? These types of couples are happening left and right in society. It's about time soaps get with the program.

OK, I'm going to stop bringing stuff over from the old thread, but I have to address this. Television is a visual media, so maybe they should stop pairing Victor with women who are 20-30 years his junior. Doesn't Sharon make Jack look old? Or is the idea that younger women make old men look young, but somehow younger men make women look old? The blatant sexism (not directing this at the person who posted because it's an issue in the genre/media itself) is unbelievable.

Soaps are still watched primarily by women and yet somehow the people who make them think we would rather watch old men sexing up women 20 or 30 years their junior. Think again IIC. I'm not a huge Phick fan, but watching a women get a guy who is (only) a few years her junior is way closer to any fantasy I'm interested in watching than watching Victor and Jack (or anyone else) do women their children's age. And if it makes her look older, so what? These types of couples are happening left and right in society. It's about time soaps get with the program.

So, I totally agree.

To be fair, though Victor and Jack get younger chicks, this is not the norm on Y&R is it? I guess Paul and Christine was another example.

The "cougar" is all the rage now, but I don't think Stafford is a cougar. Stafford is 44 (my age) and Morrow is 35. Nine years. Big deal.

I agree that the claim that being with Nick makes her look "older" is SEXIST and AGEIST.

I would say that there have been many popular older woman-younger men tales over the years (Dorian-Joey, Donna-Matthew, Viki-Ben, recently Jackie-Owen). So I think TIIC are with the program, don't you?

I would say that there have been many popular older woman-younger men tales over the years (Dorian-Joey, Donna-Matthew, Viki-Ben, recently Jackie-Owen). So I think TIIC are with the program, don't you?

Sort of, but Jackie/Owen is partially what touched off my little tirade. It truly disgusts me to watch Eric with his little honey bear and then we have Jackie who is all but raping Owen right now. The couple of days where she was a cougar were kind of hot, but now she is pretty evil, The contrast just annoys me. At the very least the arc should have happened much more slowly. It just depresses me that if I have a daughter someday, I really don't think I can carry on the soap watching tradition with her. Not unless things change in a major way. But really, Y&R is probably the best overall. I give them credit for having women be more than bimbos and mob molls.

Sort of, but Jackie/Owen is partially what touched off my little tirade. It truly disgusts me to watch Eric with his little honey bear and then we have Jackie who is all but raping Owen right now. The couple of days where she was a cougar were kind of hot, but now she is pretty evil, The contrast just annoys me. At the very least the arc should have happened much more slowly. It just depresses me that if I have a daughter someday, I really don't think I can carry on the soap watching tradition with her. Not unless things change in a major way. But really, Y&R is probably the best overall. I give them credit for having women be more than bimbos and mob molls.

Yeah, the Jackie change at B&B is awful...but Brad Bell seems to suggest

that won't last

.

I don't think Phyllis looks "old" next to Nick but (IMO) JM is prettier than MS or SC. There's a tendency to compare Phickron to the classic Nikki/Victor/Ashley triangle but I see more of a comparison to Jack/Nikki/Victor, with Nick as the alluring object in the middle.

I don't think Phyllis looks "old" next to Nick but (IMO) JM is prettier than MS or SC. There's a tendency to compare Phickron to the classic Nikki/Victor/Ashley triangle but I see more of a comparison to Jack/Nikki/Victor, with Nick as the alluring object in the middle.

I find all three alluring. I like each dyad that they play. That's why I am so confused about the hate in some quarters. I think this is written so you can see all sides.

As I said before, Sharon needs to raise this kid with Jack for a good year or two, while suppressing her feelings for Nick, as Nick does the same for her. By this time, Nick would have already left Phyllis, and Phyllis would be in a romance with someone new (which would develop over time). Anyway. Nick still struggles with staying away from Sharon, but she's fully committed to raising this kid with Jack, but Nick and Sharon constantly have these chance encounters where they longingly looks into one another's eyes, but for years, they suppress their sudden urge to kiss or have sex. Tons of more obstacles would have to come into play where finally, Sharon realizes that even though Jack is an honourable guy and a good father to her daughter, she can't stand this emotional torture anymore and wants to be with Nick.

Simiilar to JER's Marlena/John/Roman triangle, without all the JER-isms, in a way.

Awesome 7-year old Thom Bierdz interview....

I know it won't happen but I wish that Summer was Jack's kid and that Sharon was carrying Nick's child. We never had real clarity on the Summer paternity issue.