I wonder if he's ever been asked back? His mom-in-law is still active with the show as a consultant.

David's scripts were bad. He may "get" some aspects of what makes a soap work, but he was not cut out for writing dialogue. Once Agnes was gone as HW, they canned him.

Edited May 15, 200916 yr by Kubla Khan

Very enlightening. And it drives home the reason many soaps are disjointed and lack focus. If you think back to the 70's, when Y&R was written exclusively by Bell and Alden, and think about how focused it was.... you had one person driving the bus, and that's what a show needs. A different writer for each day of the week? that's ridiculous. I don't think all soaps do this. Didn't I read that on Y&R, certain writers are assigned certain characters? or Storylines? That would certainly make much more sense. It would also explain why I never could stand to watch AMC.

Do you know anything about the process?

Anyway, thanks for the read, Sylph. Any insight from someone who lived in the soap writing universe is appreciated.

I don't think it would make the show disjointed at all. It would give consistency to have one writer write for a certain SL, they could execute the whole thing. And I don't think the shows today could do it with 2 or 3 writers, BUT.... when the show at 30 minutes was written with 2, why can't teh show at 60 minutes do it with 5? Why do they need 7, or sometimes 8 or 9?

You need to research it a bit.

Anyway... Primetime shows — perhaps the majority, not all — have a nice practice. In the writers’ room everyone plots. All the writers contribute to all episodes. So once the whole team outlines the episode, the show runner picks a writer who gets the notes and the basic plot and goes to type out his script.

If you look at American ‘writers’ rooms’ where they do 20/24 episodes a year. They literally have a huge room, and the wall is completely covered in whiteboard, and they will start at episode one and they will write in a different colour for every single character. They’ll go round and they’ll probably do 8 episodes and then they’ll see if they’re going to get re-commissioned. While they are filming episode 2 they’ll get 6 more episodes and they fill in those and then they go the whole way round the room. So in the end, you can look and see that colour hasn’t had an episode for ages.

Anyway, thanks for the read, Sylph. Any insight from someone who lived in the soap writing universe is appreciated.

David's scripts were bad. He may "get" some aspects of what makes a soap work, but he was not cut out for writing dialogue. Once Agnes was gone as HW, they canned him.

Kubla, do you know how did that whole pitching process when Lorraine was there worked? I'm referring to that story Johnson & Beldner and another writer, I'm forgetting which one, proposed to her? Did they just make a suggestion or did they also write the synopsis for the story or something?

Do you know anything about the process?

Anyway, thanks for the read, Sylph. Any insight from someone who lived in the soap writing universe is appreciated.

You need to research it a bit.

Sorry to butt in, but did you both mean to be this dismissive?

When I look at the title of this board it is "Soap Opera Network" not "Soap Opera Aspiring Writers Network". So OF COURSE there are many of us who haven't got a CLUE about the process.

Rather than peer over top the spectacles and send folks to the library, what about educatin' the dumb folk?

Back to lurkdom on this issue.

Sorry to butt in, but did you both mean to be this dismissive?

No, I honestly didn't mean it like that.

If I was mean, alphanguy, I apologize.

The problem, Mark, is that so little info gets out of this offices and soaps, it's more guarded than Fort Knox, and every head writer has his/her own way of doing things so it is difficult to generalise.

Edited May 15, 200916 yr by Sylph

She also learned she wasn't Mac's real daughter.

Which was not a smart decision, if you ask me. Especially when, in the long run, it made not a difference in Iris' attitude toward Mac.

Meanwhile, I'm surprised no one has nominated Mr. Hiltbrand as soaps' potential new messiah. I thought by now we'd see "David Hiltbrand should HW [enter show name here]!" posts all over the place.

Which was not a smart decision, if you ask me. Especially when, in the long run, it made not a difference in Iris' attitude toward Mac.

I don't think it was meant to make a change in Iris' attitude but to make her more of a fighter and to explore more of her character. It also strengthened her feeling of being unloved by all the men in her life. And it made her long even more for Mac's love in the light of she was the only daughter in his life and now she was competing for him with Amanda. Add to that now Amanda was his blood and she was not. It made her fight even harder to make Mac love her and notice her.

It was an excellent set up.

Beverlee McKinsey was really great all throughout her tenure on AW but from 1978 to 1980 she was remarkable. Lemay gave her some of the greatest material to work with those years.

Sorry to butt in, but did you both mean to be this dismissive?

When I look at the title of this board it is "Soap Opera Network" not "Soap Opera Aspiring Writers Network". So OF COURSE there are many of us who haven't got a CLUE about the process.

Rather than peer over top the spectacles and send folks to the library, what about educatin' the dumb folk?

Back to lurkdom on this issue.

I totally meant to be dismissive. It wasn't a dismissal due to someone's lack of knowledge regarding the process -- it was a dismissal to someone's lack of knowledge about the process AND dogging a show that I enjoy while citing their favorite show as being so wonderful for using a process they don't even use. If the poster knew about the process and actually researched it (listening to their favorite show's former HW Kay Alden's lecture two years ago, for example), then they would know that Y&R's writing process works virtually identical to the way AMC's does. Head writer writes the long term, breakdown writers write the outlines and script writers write the dialogue. As far as "educatin' the dumb folk" rather than sending them to the library, I'd be more than happy to if I was asked to do so. Otherwise, I'm not responsible for educating someone who dives into a conversation with misinformation and a jab at a show they don't watch. They weren't asking for education at all. It was just yet another attempt at being divisive.

But thanks for asking.

I totally meant to be dismissive. It wasn't a dismissal due to someone's lack of knowledge regarding the process -- it was a dismissal to someone's lack of knowledge about the process AND dogging a show that I enjoy while citing their favorite show as being so wonderful for using a process they don't even use. If the poster knew about the process and actually researched it (listening to their favorite show's former HW Kay Alden's lecture two years ago, for example), then they would know that Y&R's writing process works virtually identical to the way AMC's does. Head writer writes the long term, breakdown writers write the outlines and script writers write the dialogue. As far as "educatin' the dumb folk" rather than sending them to the library, I'd be more than happy to if I was asked to do so. Otherwise, I'm not responsible for educating someone who dives into a conversation with misinformation and a jab at a show they don't watch. They weren't asking for education at all. It was just yet another attempt at being divisive.

But thanks for asking.

:lol:

Absolute post of the week!!!

Hey, I wasn't going to go in to it... but since MarkH asked... who am I to refuse?

Hey, I wasn't going to go in to it... but since MarkH asked... who am I to refuse?

Grateful. I actually like your response, for the most part.

Hey, I wasn't going to go in to it... but since MarkH asked... who am I to refuse?

You should take a large hammer more often and thump the message home!

I think it would be better if soaps had (and I presume I can easily be proven wrong) — the writers’ room. Some were never writers’ room soaps, some got rid of it. Yeah, there are conference calls, emails, faxes, whatever... But the room is something else.

I know one actor who said that he thought it would be better if the writers could be physically closer to where the show gets done. He acknowledged that it isn't necessarily feasible but that level of collaboration would probably result in a better product or at least a better creative process. IMO, there's something good that happens when everyone is in the same place that you can't duplicate using other forms of communication. But this is the 21st century, so break out the Blackberrys and hope for the best.

And please don't smack me around for not knowing how the whole BTS thing works. I don't claim to. I just thought I'd throw that out there. Just consider me the little girl rocking and weeping in the corner while Uncle Sylph, Mark and R Sinclair fight with each other at the family barbecue.

*sings to herself* Yes Jesus loves me...Yes Jesus loves me...

Edited May 15, 200916 yr by marceline

I just saw this now!

I know one actor who said that he thought it would be better if the writers could be physically closer to where the show gets done. He acknowledged that it isn't necessarily feasible but that level of collaboration would probably result in a better product or at least a better creative process. IMO, there's something good that happens when everyone is in the same place that you can't duplicate using other forms of communication. But this is the 21st century, so break out the Blackberrys and hope for the best.

There totally is. But in certain ways, it might be cheaper for them not to have the room. Not to say anything about the fact that you can sit in your cottage somewhere in the Godforsaken hills, type your script and after you finish, just hit: Send! (For me, that's exactly the problem.)

And please don't smack me around for not knowing how the whole BTS thing works. I don't claim to. I just thought I'd throw that out there. Just consider me the little girl rocking and weeping in the corner while Uncle Sylph, Mark and R Sinclair fight with each other at the family barbecue.

*sings to herself* Yes Jesus loves me...Yes Jesus loves me...

Don't worry, marceline, very few people can claim that they know exactly how things work, and in detail, at any givetime. Head writers change, bring with them tiny adjustments so it's all in a state of flux. But the basics, I think, remain constant.

I would, however, like to know whether any of today's HWs writes story projections...

Edited May 16, 200916 yr by Sylph

Actually, All My Children does use a different process from other shows.

Not trying to cross R Sinclair's path or anything - but their process is different now. The script writer receives a summary of what's in their episode, and has a day or two to make their own outline, breaking down all the scenes, and then only four or five days to write a script (as opposed to the seven other soaps get). So there's definitely a time crunch AMC has, and a double-duty they're forced to do, that other shows aren't under.

I'm not saying it's better or worse - but I do think you need somebody experienced in both breakdowns and scripts, like a Michelle Patrick or an Addie Walsh. Whereas most shows give breakdown writers three or four days to write a breakdown, and script writers a week to write a show, AMC needs somebody to do the whole process in six or seven days. So there's definitely a lot less time for exploration and concentration. You have to just get it done.