Members classicmoment Posted May 14, 2009 Members Share Posted May 14, 2009 I mean I realize it has gone downhill since it's high point from NOV sweeps but it is not exactly unwatchable. I still CAN enjoy the characters even with aot of PLOTDRIVEN bs that's occurring but if it only get worse I see a LML all over again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cara mia Posted May 14, 2009 Members Share Posted May 14, 2009 Is the show really plot-driven right now? Yes and No. I think there are TWO shows on Y&R right now. One is character-driven and it includes most of the Newmans, Abbotts and sometimes the Chancellors. The other is plot-driven and it includes the Crimson Lights foursome, and sometimes the Chancellors. Plot-driven is stuff dropped from the sky. The return of Clint, for example, so that we can get to Kevin's breakdown and give some sort of story for Kevin/Jana/Amber/Daniel and the Fisher Baldwins and (to a smaller extent) Kay & Murphy. This Art guy is yet ANOTHER plot-driven plot for presumably the same group. These characters don't make things happen. They just go through a series of externally created adventures, sort of like the characters on Scooby Doo or Gilligan's island. That's why (with the obvious exception of Kay), Kevin/Jana/Amber/Daniel/Michael/Lauren/Gloria/Jeff could all be cut tomorrow and the show wouldn't lose a thing. And I hate that I had to put Michael in that group but TPTB have turned Michael into just a support of Kevin and Gloria. Character-driven stuff is Nikki/Paul's romance because of course she would turn to him, Victor/Ashley's rebound romance, Jack trying to play hero for Sharon, Nick letting little Nicky make all his decisions, Victoria being a jealous bitch, Phyllis trying to be smart and save her marriage even though she has to act out sometimes still, Jack using/teaching Colleen, Colleen wanting to hurt Victor because of Brad, Heather lack of judgment and desperate need for some happiness, Lily being a princess and wanting the fairy tale she never got but felt she was entitled too, Billy looking to someone outside of himself for validation and love and being unable to appreciate what he already has, Sharon's free fall in the hopes that Nick will actually catch her and her continued despair because he hasn't, Jill imploding upon the loss of her "mother" and Kay's relative equanimity at the loss of her "daughter" and all the amazing stuff with Adam right now, which is all about his character and how far he's fallen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members classicmoment Posted May 14, 2009 Members Share Posted May 14, 2009 Right I'm not saying the whole show is plot driven but you summed it up perfect for me. When I see that I see opportunities for writing like that may takeover, I am very much hoping that's not the case. I can enjoy the character driven stories The Phyll/Nick/sHARON/JACK stuff. The Victor/Nikki/paul stuff, the Adam stuff is plot driven at this point don't know how they plan to bounce him back. Don't get me started on the Dan crap. Like I said it's not unwatchable, it's not unwatchable only because of the character driven stories still being told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MarkH Posted May 14, 2009 Members Share Posted May 14, 2009 Wow, what a great post! I liked the first Lily and Daniel. Like the first JT/Colleen, I do not understand how that was lost. Every time they find gold...they squander it. As for the family dynamics issues, another great point. You're absolutely right. People fight over their family loyalties ALL the time. And yes, I think people who are on here posting about Y&R everyday, at some level, love this show. Maybe not in its current incarnation, but still... Another great post! The excellent question is whether some of these "out of left field plot twists" are killing the show? I think they are making it more exciting...but I also agree that Clint Radisson (for example) damn near ruined the sublime Kay/Marge story. So, it is definitely a risky time. I think they're trying desperately to goose the ratings during sweeps...and that brings out the worst in EVERY show...but I'm going to withhold judgement until I see the long-term payoff. The Kay-Marge sweeps stunt, for example, bought us MONTHS of excellent story across the whole canvas. So, that could happen again. So, the question this inspires in me is this: There ARE two audience for soaps. There *is* the plot-shocker audience. This is the audience that inflates GH's ratings every time they do a stunt. This is the audience that loved OLTL last May. Then, there is the "community, family, romance, social relevance" audience. I _think_ Y&R is trying to satisfy both audiences right now. If they can pull it off, it is brilliant. But it is risky...could they alienate both? I will point out that since MAB became solo HW, Y&R has done the IMPOSSIBLE: slow ratings GROWTH. Let's see if that continues or maintains. If yes, then all the naysayers are ... from an economic/demographic/ratings perspective ... plain wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Y&RWorldTurner Posted May 14, 2009 Members Share Posted May 14, 2009 Whatever, it was under MAB that the show crashed into the 3's in the first place. There's nothing brilliant on this show, I've seen nothing she's done that hasn't been done better before on not only Y&R, but on various other soaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cara mia Posted May 14, 2009 Members Share Posted May 14, 2009 I think there are three audiences. Escapists/Romantics Coffee Clatchers/Comfort Foodies Obsessive/Media omnivores Escapists watch soaps for just that. They want beautiful people with beautiful problems in beautiful homes. Sharon's life is a mess but oh what a lovely mess. She's gorgeous. She gets to have sex with Nick, Billy and Jack. She lives in the Abbott mansion. Her life is falling apart but it's all good because it's a literally a treat to watch. This group is related to but not exactly the same as the Romantics. The Romantics say they want a happy ending and sweet sappy times for their couple. What they really want is for their couple to suffer deliciously. They want to escape into the drama of a high-stakes romance. Coffee clatchers see characters as old friends. They know that Nikki is an ex-stripper and that Kay & Jill are meant to be enemies. They know that Victor is kind of a douchebag and they might even hate him but they still want to see him on their screens. They're attached to the characters as if they were an extended family. And they want to see real problems on screen. Nick the adulterer, Gloria the overbearing mother (the show is missing a golden opportunity to present Glo as mom-in-law from hell to Jana & Lauren, and also missing a chance to create a misguided rivalry between J & L for Glo's "affections), and Phyllis the desperate housewife are all like people we know in real life. So when Nick & Sharon remember Cassie it doesn't feel gimmicky, it feels real and painful, because we knew her too and we can connect with how sad it was for them. Obsessive/Media omnivores might describe might describe most of us here. We nitpick but we do it because we care. We see that Billy is being modeled after a young Jack, that the gaslighting story is take off on both Rebecca & Gaslight, that Cane as Phillip III is ridiculous, and so on. We're meta about our soap because we value the construction as much as we value the experience. If I'm honest with myself, I am probably all three viewers in one. It all depends on what mood I'm in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members classicmoment Posted May 14, 2009 Members Share Posted May 14, 2009 Hmm ok maybe that's true who is doing it better now though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Adam Posted May 14, 2009 Members Share Posted May 14, 2009 Ouch! Truth hurts though.... nothing brilliant, still enjoyable (for me anyway) but I can see that changing soon lol. The Y&R threads in the spoiler forum right now put the fear of god into me.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MarkH Posted May 14, 2009 Members Share Posted May 14, 2009 Damn, this is goooooooood. Did you write a thesis on this or something? I really like your thoughtful posting style! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cara mia Posted May 14, 2009 Members Share Posted May 14, 2009 Thanks, Mark! You're making me blush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Juliajms Posted May 14, 2009 Members Share Posted May 14, 2009 I'm definitely a "coffee clatcher". I can barely stand Victor on most days, but there would be a huge hole in this show without him. I still think of characters and actors that have only been on the show for 10-15 years as new. Then I have to remind myself..."Hey, wait. Sharon has been on this show for over a decade now. Damn"! No one in daytime, imo. After I watch an episode of GH, Y&R is like a symphony. Characters on Y&R are treated like precious gems. On GH they are treated like Sh!t. That doesn't mean Y&R gets a pass. There's definitely room for improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members classicmoment Posted May 14, 2009 Members Share Posted May 14, 2009 Mostly a coffee clatcher here but a bit of an obsessive media omnivore. This is how I like my dramas though. I have a range of viewership from sports, cartoons, action/adventure, serial dramas, comedy, reality, thrillers. My viewership is invested based on specific elements of each for instance I love watching NBA and sportscenter but I'm probably mostly watching during finals because that is the most exciting element for me. With drama, I love to watch beautiful characters with relative/realistic conflicts, work through their dysfunction. It doesn't always matter to me who ends up with who as long as the history and connections are the beats that are played, but I get that it matters to some. So I agree the shows have a range of viewers to cater to however, I always have this issue with pop culture because while I believe it's not impossible to make most of your market happy I also believe in spreading yourself too thin. With that said, Y&R is the only daytime soap I still watch now and I love it. I lput it in a different class howver when I see the decline I start preparing myself for the worst and I'm preparing for the day I no longer view it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Khan Posted May 14, 2009 Members Share Posted May 14, 2009 Ah, the Nineties. You know, they say, if you still remember them, then you must not have had any fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Khan Posted May 14, 2009 Members Share Posted May 14, 2009 Which, IMO, is problem number-one right now with Y&R. No breath-taking romance, no heart-stopping passion, no "EEEEEE!"-worthy hookups of any kind. Just evil chipmunks, grisly deaths, convoluted schemes (both financial and criminal), and Sharon's Craft-O-Matic adjustable vagina. (Oh, and mentally cracked dames, stroking their kitties and vowing revenge. Haven't forgotten about you, Patty Jane!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Khan Posted May 14, 2009 Members Share Posted May 14, 2009 What?! Get outta here! You? What good does being "in character" do, though, when everyone's either without story, trapped in bad story, or hopelessly tied to the Fisher-Baldwins just to get story? As opposed to before, when she got by on divine providence or pure, dumb luck? I don't question your Y&R-love, Mark, but I do question whether you and I are watching the same Y&R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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