On 6/4/2025 at 6:36 PM, Contessa Donatella said:

An unfortunately common refrain!

I remember Bridget and Victoria in 1985 shortly after they and Jake arrived talking about Illinois. This is when they were bopping back and forth from Lassiter, PA.

1 hour ago, Daytime Watcher said:

I remember Bridget and Victoria in 1985 shortly after they and Jake arrived talking about Illinois. This is when they were bopping back and forth from Lassiter, PA.

I remember when they did the stupendously stupid thing of moving that swing set from Lassiter, PA to Bay City. I'm like WHAT?!!!

 

 

I was watching some August 1987 episodes and they brought back so many memories. I had some thoughts:

Lisa and Jamie were so dull. Lisa was such a nothing character. It boggles my mind that so much story was centered around her in such a short amount of time. Joanna Going is a talented actress, but the material was just not there. 

It was so good to see Wallingford and Mitch again. I know there was talk about Felicia a while back, but these episodes reminded me how integral Felicia was for the show. 

Sally Spencer was done so dirty. She is turning in superb performances in an icky storyline. I wish she had stuck around longer. She has chemistry with everyone. The McKinnons should have lasted longer. Spencer had some strong stuff with Stephen Schnetzer and Mary Alexander. AW waster such a talented actress by getting rid of her. Justice for Cheryl too. I also missed Ed Fry when he left.

Sandra Ferguson was a star from the moment she came on. She was charismatic and just popped. She had immediate chemistry with RKK and blended in well with Wyndham and Watson. I'd forgotten about the teenage Matthew. 

I have no memory of Peggy Lazarus. She must not have lasted long. Was the original plan for John that he was going to turn out to be the twins' real father?

 

 

 

RIP Wayne Lewis.

(he sings near the end of the episode)

https://deadline.com/2025/06/wayne-lewis-dead-atlantic-starr-founder-singer-1236426870/

@chrismlAbout Lisa, agree to disagree. Actually at the time she was the only thing my partner & I disagreed about. Naturally she was Team Vicky while I was steadfast as Team Lisa. 

About John & twin paternity, I think that like the 3 pillows was a transitory idea someone had that no one else agreed with. More of the attempt to accommodate Philece.

About MJ, co-sign, 100% agree, if there were more degrees I would claim them.

About Wally & Felicia, always a fan. Mitch? Eh, take or leave. Although I do agree that WGE is a really striking man.

Who have I left out? I don't know so that's all I got.

I don't think Lisa served a purpose after the serial killer storyline. The writers never gave her anything to do but be Vicky's nemesis. Joanna Going deserved better. Another example of a character taking over the show and then the writers not having a longterm plan for the character. 

Exhibit B: Sally Spencer. Such a missed opportunity. It really angers me how they misused her. She could sing and act and they just threw her away in that sexist nonsense storyline. Once the story was over, they wrote her off. The McKinnons should have lasted for years.

I will give the show credit for how they introduced Sandra Ferguson as Amanda. I thought it was expertly done. She comes in and she immediately connected to RKK's Sam. She has chemistry with Matthew and she has realistic conversations with MAc and Rachel. That's how it is done. 

43 minutes ago, chrisml said:

I don't think Lisa served a purpose after the serial killer storyline. The writers never gave her anything to do but be Vicky's nemesis. Joanna Going deserved better. Another example of a character taking over the show and then the writers not having a longterm plan for the character. 

You're right. People like me who stuck with her, did so because of her history. The show just skated her along with no story,  no goal, no aim.

43 minutes ago, chrisml said:

Exhibit B: Sally Spencer. Such a missed opportunity. It really angers me how they misused her. She could sing and act and they just threw her away in that sexist nonsense storyline. Once the story was over, they wrote her off. The McKinnons should have lasted for years.

Right again!

43 minutes ago, chrisml said:

I will give the show credit for how they introduced Sandra Ferguson as Amanda. I thought it was expertly done. She comes in and she immediately connected to RKK's Sam. She has chemistry with Matthew and she has realistic conversations with MAc and Rachel. That's how it is done. 

This is who I forgot before. When you describe her, it makes me appreciate her more. Thinking back I loved Mandy.

In the 1987 episodes, Mary has wonderful conversations with MJ and Cheryl. This is a realistic family with believable dynamics. Mary's ambivalence towards Vince is played nicely. Denise Alexander is so good here. I don't know what happened that the writers or producers just decided to chuck it all away. I don't FF these scenes. The show had a strong family that could have had years of storyline and they did nothing with them. I really don't get it. 

2 minutes ago, chrisml said:

In the 1987 episodes, Mary has wonderful conversations with MJ and Cheryl. This is a realistic family with believable dynamics. Mary's ambivalence towards Vince is played nicely. Denise Alexander is so good here. I don't know what happened that the writers or producers just decided to chuck it all away. I don't FF these scenes. The show had a strong family that could have had years of storyline and they did nothing with them. I really don't get it. 

The show made a mistake in not bringing in more McKinnon kids, specifically bringing back Ben. Kathleen was leaving, and while I like you am very fond of Sally Spencer as MJ, that didn't seem to be a common view. They also decimated the character in a truly sick storyline. So that just left Cheryl. 

12 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

The show made a mistake in not bringing in more McKinnon kids, specifically bringing back Ben. Kathleen was leaving, and while I like you am very fond of Sally Spencer as MJ, that didn't seem to be a common view. They also decimated the character in a truly sick storyline. So that just left Cheryl. 

I think Cheryl was essentially replaced by Josie, and it seems likely that Lemay wanted to bring the Frames back into the picture and for a variety of reasons that it would be McKinnons who would make way for them. Cheryl didn't really get many layers -- she was pretty and kind and sweet and faded into the background so that Scott could participate in the AIDS storyline with Dawn.

Looking at the AWHP, other than (not very) shockingly being in love with her mother's adopted son Scott, Cheryl apparently went out with Sam and flirted with much-too-old-for-her John Hudson and MJ's ex-boyfriend/pimp Chad. I know MJ told Mary that she had been a prostitute, but did she tell Cheryl and did she tell anyone about Chad's pimping? 

 

33 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

The show made a mistake in not bringing in more McKinnon kids, specifically bringing back Ben. Kathleen was leaving, and while I like you am very fond of Sally Spencer as MJ, that didn't seem to be a common view. They also decimated the character in a truly sick storyline. So that just left Cheryl. 

From what I just recently watched, they were setting her up to go into future stories. She was Emmy nomination worthy in the material I saw. If some viewers did not like her, the character could have been rehabilitated after that sick storyline. It feels like they destroyed a character for fun and then tossed her to the curb. Spencer had chemistry with everyone. I'm just retroactively angry on Spencer's behalf. 

6 minutes ago, Xanthe said:

I think Cheryl was essentially replaced by Josie, and it seems likely that Lemay wanted to bring the Frames back into the picture and for a variety of reasons that it would be McKinnons who would make way for them. Cheryl didn't really get many layers -- she was pretty and kind and sweet and faded into the background so that Scott could participate in the AIDS storyline with Dawn.

 

You're right about how Cheryl was often forgotten and pushed aside and I would take Cheryl over Josie. I think soaps need characters like Cheryl. Characters like Josie are way too common. Josie always got on my nerves.

3 minutes ago, Xanthe said:

I think Cheryl was essentially replaced by Josie, and it seems likely that Lemay wanted to bring the Frames back into the picture and for a variety of reasons that it would be McKinnons who would make way for them. Cheryl didn't really get many layers -- she was pretty and kind and sweet and faded into the background so that Scott could participate in the AIDS storyline with Dawn.

Looking at the AWHP, other than (not very) shockingly being in love with her mother's adopted son Scott, Cheryl apparently went out with Sam and flirted with much-too-old-for-her John Hudson and MJ's ex-boyfriend/pimp Chad. I know MJ told Mary that she had been a prostitute, but did she tell Cheryl and did she tell anyone about Chad's pimping? 

All the time they spent trying to make viewers feel sorry for Chad only for him to not even last that long. I wonder if they knew Richard Burgi was going so quickly.

You're right about Josie replacing Cheryl. On paper, this should have made sense, given all the ties Josie had to the canvas, but I did prefer Cheryl. There was something very synthetic about Alexandra Wilson. 

10 minutes ago, chrisml said:

From what I just recently watched, they were setting her up to go into future stories. She was Emmy nomination worthy in the material I saw. If some viewers did not like her, the character could have been rehabilitated after that sick storyline. It feels like they destroyed a character for fun and then tossed her to the curb. Spencer had chemistry with everyone. I'm just retroactively angry on Spencer's behalf. 

I suppose even if she did have some fans they were just so used to getting rid of people left and right, so she was more collateral damage.

As you said above I do wonder what the plans were for Peggy Lazarus. I think AWHP mentioned her once telling Peter that Peggy Lazarus wasn't her real name. Maybe she would have been another Carl moll...

Rebecca Hollen never did get her due in her soap roles.

Sally Spencer was a decent actress, but the writing destroyed the "M.J." that Kathleen Layman had built. Layman had a quiet strength about her, and she and Osburn really felt like sisters. Spencer's character should have been either an unmentioned sister, or maybe Jake's that grew up close to Kathleen, M.J. and the rest, but was away for a few years before joining the force.

Kristen Marie was o.k., but I always got a mousier vibe from her. Being pigeon-holed with Scott for most of the run hurt things for her, as well. 

The Loves were also underserved between Rhonda Lewin and Philece Sampler. Philece would have been better as Nicole. Thank goodness Anne Heche  showed up for the next round of auditions. Christopher Holder was mediocre as Peter, but given a shot, I think Marcus Smythe could have stuck around for a while.  I would have had Peggy Lazarus be a Frame -- possibly an ex-wife for Vince with an agenda. Smythe and Hollen had  a fun chemistry that could have kept the two around..

Bringing recasts for  Cheryl and Ben back mixing it up with other Frames. Corys, Lawrences at the time might have kept all the families stronger. 

52 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

As you said above I do wonder what the plans were for Peggy Lazarus. I think AWHP mentioned her once telling Peter that Peggy Lazarus wasn't her real name.

She appeared onscreen not long after Rose Livingston and Sara Montaigne, and we found out that Sara was Rose's estranged daughter. I wonder whether Peggy might have been part of that family group -- or else they were just juggling a few different potential mysteries so that they could develop whatever seemed to be getting the best response from the audience. They didn't do anything much with Rose and Sara really either. Maybe Rose would have become more prominent if Rachel and Mac had split up over Mitch, or if Sara had really flourished.

1 hour ago, chrisml said:

You're right about how Cheryl was often forgotten and pushed aside and I would take Cheryl over Josie. I think soaps need characters like Cheryl. Characters like Josie are way too common. Josie always got on my nerves.

In some ways I can picture Cheryl being affected by MJ's prostitution similarly to how Josie was distressed by finding out about Sharlene. But I can also see that Josie as a Frame being involved with Matthew would have different stakes for Rachel and Sharlene than Cheryl being involved with Scott. I do think the solution for Cheryl would have had to be a badder boy than Scott -- either a real bad boy who would do her wrong, or the kind of bad boy (not Chad!!!) who is essentially misunderstood and other people just don't understand.

Cheryl would also have been better off with some friends her own age. Matthew and Josie benefited a bit from having other teenagers to interact with.