5 hours ago, Xanthe said:

It does appear that Alice and Steve and Jim and Mary are less oblivious and also believe Russ doesn't know. Rachel has told Steve directly of course but he insists that he isn't the father (without denying to Alice that he slept with Rachel, so just wishful thinking); Jim and Mary are suspicious but think they should open the trust fund anyway.

I'm not sure which part of the story you're referencing.

IIRC (which is never a guarantee) didn't Rachel tell Alice and Steve at their engagement party?  Then, Alice calls off her engagement, she tells Jim, but begs him for secrecy.  He tells Mary, but they agree not to upset Russ, also Pat had her own mishegoss.  Rachel goes to a nearby town, so Russ can't tell how far along she is in the pregnancy.  Then, Rachel returns to give birth.  Jim is torn because Rachel wants a trust for Jamie so she can get a bigger apartment, meanwhile Pat wants Lenore's old place and she needs a loan.

15 minutes ago, j swift said:

meanwhile Pat wants Lenore's old place and she needs a loan.

Why is Pat looking for a place?  Were she and John separated at that time?  And weren't Lenore and Walter already living in Bill and Missy's old house by that time?  

51 minutes ago, j swift said:

I'm not sure which part of the story you're referencing.

IIRC (which is never a guarantee) didn't Rachel tell Alice and Steve at their engagement party?  Then, Alice calls off her engagement, she tells Jim, but begs him for secrecy.  He tells Mary, but they agree not to upset Russ, also Pat had her own mishegoss.  Rachel goes to a nearby town, so Russ can't tell how far along she is in the pregnancy.  Then, Rachel returns to give birth.  Jim is torn because Rachel wants a trust for Jamie so she can get a bigger apartment, meanwhile Pat wants Lenore's old place and she needs a loan.

I was looking at the bit right after Jamie is born. But I have flipped back a couple of pages and I see Alice tell Jim (who reasons that the odds must be in Russ' favour) who tells Mary who was on the very verge of telling Russ when Rachel went into labour and Russ had to leave for the hospital without the facts.  

1 hour ago, Mona Kane Croft said:

Why is Pat looking for a place?  Were she and John separated at that time?  And weren't Lenore and Walter already living in Bill and Missy's old house by that time?  

Of course, you are correct. I conflated Pat and Lenore's story during the engagement party.

It was relatively more embarrassing for Russ than for Mac.  Because only three people were keeping it a secret from Mac.  Meanwhile, everyone in Russ's family and their spouses knew Rachel's secret for months before him.  (Correct this list if anyone is missing or incorrect) The people who knew Russ wasn't Jamey's father before he did included: Steve, Alice, John, Pat, Jim, Mary, and maybe Walter?

Also, can anyone confirm - Zach only knew that Mac took a medication that caused sterility, so he figured it out that Mitch was the father.  Nobody confessed to Zach prior to the trial that Rachel wasn't pregnant by Mac.  Which lead to Mac's first most famous courtroom hysterics moment (obviously the second would mirror it, but with Iris).

Edited March 22Mar 22 by j swift

9 hours ago, j swift said:

The people who knew Russ wasn't Jamey's father before he did included: Steve, Alice, John, Pat, Jim, Mary, and maybe Walter?

Plus of course Rachel, Ada, and possibly Ernie.  That's a lot of people who knew, while poor Russ was out of the loop.

45 minutes ago, Mona Kane Croft said:

Plus of course Rachel, Ada, and possibly Ernie.  That's a lot of people who knew, while poor Russ was out of the loop.

Unfortunately Russ at that time was written very dumb. It was inevitable. The writing required it. However, I remember really feeling sorry for him. He was just a nice guy. He didn't deserve to be treated so badly. 

2 hours ago, Contessa Donatella said:

Unfortunately Russ at that time was written very dumb. It was inevitable. The writing required it. However, I remember really feeling sorry for him. He was just a nice guy. He didn't deserve to be treated so badly. 

They did something similar with Mickey Horton on DOOL.  He was the last to find out that Mike was not his biological son.  Several other family members had known for years.  

5 minutes ago, Mona Kane Croft said:

They did something similar with Mickey Horton on DOOL.  He was the last to find out that Mike was not his biological son.  Several other family members had known for years.  

Oh, yes, good comparison but not as many people knew. 8 or more years, though was a long damn time. Tom, Laura, Bill & Kitty knew.

13 hours ago, j swift said:

It was relatively more embarrassing for Russ than for Mac.  Because only three people were keeping it a secret from Mac.

Was Mac thinking about that aspect at all? In that specific conversation with Russ he seemed to be focused on Rachel rather than other people. 

How far had Rachel's relationship with Mitch gone at this point? In terms of personal betrayal, seducing one's husband's sister's boyfriend because he is rich seems morally worse (although statistically more probable) than nobly sacrificing oneself to thwart one's husband's murder. The only thing Russ and Mac have in common on this issue is that Rachel did let both of them believe that they were her son's father. 

1 minute ago, Xanthe said:

Was Mac thinking about that aspect at all? In that specific conversation with Russ he seemed to be focused on Rachel rather than other people. 

How far had Rachel's relationship with Mitch gone at this point? In terms of personal betrayal, seducing one's husband's sister's boyfriend because he is rich seems morally worse (although statistically more probable) than nobly sacrificing oneself to thwart one's husband's murder. The only thing Russ and Mac have in common on this issue is that Rachel did let both of them believe that they were her son's father. 

Here I am to save the day with nitpick & technicalities! Russ & Mac also had in common loving Rachel, although admittedly they were very different kinds of love!

1 minute ago, Contessa Donatella said:

Here I am to save the day with nitpick & technicalities! Russ & Mac also had in common loving Rachel, although admittedly they were very different kinds of love!

Personally, I believe Russ was always in love with Rachel, hence his rather fast forgiveness of her (although that took a few years), and their life-long friendship after the forgiveness.  And his love for Rachel may have been one of the reasons he had so many marriages, and difficulty finding the "right" woman.  I've also believed, had Russ been recast with a more dynamic actor (perhaps the return of Sam Groom??), he and Rachel may have eventually reunited years after Mac's death.  Just wishful thinking on my part, I realize.   But I love a good romance.  

I remember a couple of times in the late-70s or very early 80s, Russ called Rachel "Honey" in the middle of some conversations.  I doubt it was scripted (or perhaps it was), but the word just seemed to slip out of David Bailey's mouth so naturally.  I think Russ never stopped loving her.  

28 minutes ago, Mona Kane Croft said:

Personally, I believe Russ was always in love with Rachel, hence his rather fast forgiveness of her (although that took a few years), and their life-long friendship after the forgiveness.  And his love for Rachel may have been one of the reasons he had so many marriages, and difficulty finding the "right" woman.  I've also believed, had Russ been recast with a more dynamic actor (perhaps the return of Sam Groom??), he and Rachel may have eventually reunited years after Mac's death.  Just wishful thinking on my part, I realize.   But I love a good romance.  

I remember a couple of times in the late-70s or very early 80s, Russ called Rachel "Honey" in the middle of some conversations.  I doubt it was scripted (or perhaps it was), but the word just seemed to slip out of David Bailey's mouth so naturally.  I think Russ never stopped loving her.  

DAYUM! Mona this is incredibly perceptive & insightful. All of that searching for a post-Mac romance & he was right there the whole time!!! 

 

On 3/21/2025 at 5:05 PM, Xanthe said:

I think you're right. In the Kate Lowe Kerrigan novelization, after Jamie is born Rachel talks with Russ (privately) about making sure Jim and Mary don't forget to create a trust fund for him and Russ doesn't have any objection other than she's being pushy about it. If he had known or suspected the baby wasn't his at that point surely he would have had something to say about it. 

It does appear that Alice and Steve and Jim and Mary are less oblivious and also believe Russ doesn't know. Rachel has told Steve directly of course but he insists that he isn't the father (without denying to Alice that he slept with Rachel, so just wishful thinking); Jim and Mary are suspicious but think they should open the trust fund anyway.

This is giving me lots of memory flashbacks.

When Jim told Mary the truth, that Steve was actually the father of Rachel's baby, she went berserk. It was actually chilling to see the usually staid, warm matriarch fly off the handle and shriek, "I hate her! I...HATE...her!"

Jim and Mary, knowing that Russ was not the son of Rachel's baby, decided to take the funds they had saved, and donate the money towards Russ launching his medical practice, instead of allowing Rachel to have any access to it.

When Steve and Alice visited Russ and Rachel in the hospital after Jamie was born, Rachel was vile enough to smile sweetly at Steven and purr, "Steve, meet our son James Gerald!" Right in front of Russ. What a bitch. 

There has never been a television character whom I loathed more than Rachel. There were four specific times when I got so mad, I actually swore at her through the screen, LOL.

(Yes, I needed to get a life!!!)

On 3/21/2025 at 5:08 PM, Mona Kane Croft said:

Yes, that is correct.  

It's all flooding back to me now.🙃

While I always love when soaps reference the past, it does vex me when they don't do enough research to get the facts right.

3 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

There has never been a television character whom I loathed more than Rachel. There were four specific times when I got so mad, I actually swore at her through the screen, LOL.

(Yes, I needed to get a life!!!)

That’s perfectly fine.

I’m sure we’ve all done that once or twice. I know I have 😂😂😂

8 minutes ago, AbcNbc247 said:

That’s perfectly fine.

I’m sure we’ve all done that once or twice. I know I have 😂😂😂

Maybe it's me. Maybe it was Connie Ford. I always loved Rachel.