ATWT: Elizabeth Hubbard: Why is she rarely mentioned?

[jfung79]

It's nice to see the Lucinda "fanbase" out in full force -- just as defensive and with an agenda as many another so-called fanbase (which I, personally, do not have a problem with).

About the scene with Jade where Jade reveals Brian is gay in a disjointed way after Elizabeth Hubbard is probably in my view ad-libbing, I think it's part of a pattern. The other day, Lucinda suddenly asked Holden what he was keeping from her, he couldn't hide that there was something wrong, which didn't make sense, and then that was dropped. These ad-libs are too obvious and ruin scenes. Yes, we do not know what is really an ad-lib without seeing a script, but I think I can tell. I don't ever have as many WTF moments with other characters' scenes as I do with Lucinda's.

[jfung79]

I agree, but the premise of the thread is that Hubbard is exceptionally under-recognized from ATWT so these should not be the people to compare her to according to the premise of the original post. It should be Zimmer, Slezak, etc.

I still think the true under-recognized veteran actresses are Ellen Dolan, Collen Zenk Pinter, and Marie Masters.

[P.J.]

^^^I don't think that specific scene (Lucinda/Holden) was an adlib. I could probably point out a dozen instances where one character "suddenly" asked a question out of the blue like that---and we never quite get an answer. It's how the writing is now. Anytime one character is trying to hide something, they'll start bluffing their way through a conversation until BAM!! the other character in the scene wants to "get to the bottom of things" and asks an awkward, probing and supposedly insightful question.

Yeah...that's why it's called a personal opinion. I'd put Maura up against anyone's "best work", period. She's that good. Call it fanbitch gushing if you must, but watching her talent grow and mature has been breathtaking.

Lisa Brown was on ATWT for like ten years. I loved her at the time...but after she went back to GL, I admit, I lost a little of the love...it was like Brown couldn't shake Iva, and Nola became Iva with a tacky wardrobe.

CZP's toned it way down from the heyday of Babs' madness. I actually think that after the year with the rubberized face, it took her a while to settle back in to using her facial expressions.

UGH...McTrash deserves time in HELL for ruining Quint and Nola the way she did.

[AllAboutAngst]

I'm not necessarily a part of the Lucinda fanbase, like I said, I don't even watch ATWT anymore but I don't see a problem with people thinking Hubbard is better than she is given credit for. Hell that's what I think and that is the reason I made the thread. I don't really know what to say about your scenario other than that you're basically guessing. You *think* that *might have* been an adlib, but you don't know for sure and neither do we. Again, I don't see how adlibbing makes someone a lesser actress and when I did watch ATWT, Lucinda's scenes made just as much sense as everyone else's. I seriously doubt that she is changing the intent of every scene and the producers and directors are just letting her. She may be difficult to work with because she adlibs and improvs a little, but I highly doubt she is going in and changing the entire premise or intent of scenes.

I think Maura's great, she's a fantastic actress. I don't know that I'd say she's better than Hubbard, but I think it's ridiculous for anyone to say "you're only saying that because you're a fan" as though liking someone's work automatically means you can't be objective. I adore Gina Tognoni, I don't think she's the best actress in daytime currently (though she is about ten years younger at least, than those I consider the best - in ten years, if she's still progressing the way she has been, my opinion might be different lol).

I love CZP, always have, but I have always felt that she has a tendency to go over the top. Admittingly, I haven't seen her in a few years so perhaps she toned it down, but much like Slezak (who I agree can be extra extra hammy) and Lucci (who can be so damn melodramatic it almost comes off as satire), the thing that always prevented CZP from being one of the best IMO was her tendency to go over the top.

[SteveFrame]

Since others have mentioned their top actresses here and there, I am just going to list who I feel are the greatest daytime actresses of all time. This list stays generally the same for me, but I do alter it from time to time.

These are in alphabetical order by first name:

Beverlee McKinsey (Love is a Many Splendored Thing; Another World; Another World; Texas; Guiding Light; General Hospital)

Constance Ford (Woman with a Past; The Edge of Night; Another World)

Constance Towers (Love Is A Many Splendored Thing; Capitol; General Hospital)

Debbi Morgan (All My Children; Loving; The City; Port Charles)

Denise Alexander (Ben Jerrod; The Clear Horizon; Days of Our Lives; General Hospital; Another World; Sunset Beach)

Dorothy Lyman (The Edge of Night; Another World; All My Children)

Eileen Fulton (As The World Turns)

Elizabeth Hubbard (The Guiding Light; The Edge of Night; The Doctors; One Life To Live; As The World Turns)

Emily McLaughlin (Young Doctor Malone; General Hospital)

Erika Slezak (One Life To Live)

Genie Francis (General Hospital; All My Children; Days of Our Lives)

Gillian Spencer (Guiding Light; One Life To Live; As The World Turns; All My Children)

Heather Tom (Young & the Restless; One Life To Live; Bold & the Beautiful)

Holland Taylor (Somerset; The Edge of Night)

Jacqueline Courtney (The Edge of Night; Our Five Daughters; Another World; One Life To Live; Loving)

Jada Rowland (The Secret Storm; As The World Turns; The Doctors)

Jane Eliot (The Nurses; A Flame in the Wind; General Hospital; Guiding Light; All My Children; Days of Our Lives; The City)

Jeanne Cooper (Young & the Restless)

Jess Walton (Capitol; Young & the Restless)

Joan Copeland (The Edge of Night; Love of Life; Search For Tomorrow; One Life To Live)

Judith Light (One Life To Live)

Julia Barr (Ryan's Hope; All My Children)

Kim Zimmer (The Doctors; One Life To Live; Guiding Light; Santa Barbara)

Leslie Charleson (As The World Turns; Love is a Many Splendored Thing; General Hospital)

Lillian Hayman (One Life To Live)

Marie Masters (As The World Turns)

Maeve McGuire (The Edge of Night; Another World; All My Children; As The World Turns)

Marilyn Chris (All My Children; One Life To Live)

Martha Byrne (As The World Turns)

Mary Fickett (Young Doctor Malone; The Edge of Night; The Nurses; The Edge of Night; All My Children)

Mary Stuart (Search For Tomorrow; One Life To Live; Guiding Light)

Maura West (As The World Turns)

Meg Mundy (The Doctors; All My Children)

Nancy Lee Grahn (Santa Barbara; General Hospital)

Patricia Barry (First Love; Days of Our Lives; All My Children; Loving)

Robin Strasser (Another World; One Life To Live; All My Children)

Rosemary Prinz (First Love; As The World Turns; All My Children; How To Survive A Marriage; Ryan's Hope)

Ruth Warrick (The Guiding Light; As The World Turns; All My Children)

Susan Flannery (Days of Our Lives; Bold & the Beautiful)

Susan Lucci (All My Children)

Suzanne Rogers (Days of Our Lives)

Tudi Wiggins (Love of Life; All My Children)

Victoria Rowell (Young & the Restless)

Victoria Wyndham (Woman with a Past; The Guiding Light; Another World)

It's hard for me to pick just one. And I hardly ever keep them at the same rank. Beverlee McKinsey and Jane Eliot pretty much stay the top 2 though.

[SteveFrame]

Oh just for the fun of it, last year my site had a 4 month long contest where we named the Best Actors and Actresses (based on talent alone) in the history of daytime soaps. Here are the results. You can see where Hubbard finished on the list.

Best Daytime Actors

01) Anthony Geary (Bright Promise; Young & the Restless; General Hospital; Sunset Beach; Port Charles)

02) Peter Bergman (All My Children; Young & the Restless)

03) Douglas Watson (The Nurses; Moment of Truth; Search For Tomorrow; Love of Life; Another World)

04) Michael Zaslow (Search For Tomorrow; Love is a Many Splendored Thing; The Guiding Light; One Life To Live)

05) Larry Bryggman (As The World Turns)

06) Justin Deas (Ryan's Hope; As The World Turns; Santa Barbara; Guiding Light)

07) David Canary (The Doctors; Another World; All My Children; One Life To Live)

08) Larry Haines (Search For Tomorrow; Another World; Loving)

09) Charles Keating (Another World; All My Children; As The World Turns; Port Charles)

10) Joel Crothers (Dark Shadows; The Secret Storm; Somerset; The Edge of Night; Santa Barbara)

11) Eric Braedan (Young & the Restless)

12) Michael E. Knight (All My Children)

13) Henderson Forsythe (From These Roots; The Edge of Night; As The World Turns)

14) George Reinholt (The Secret Storm; Another World; One Life To Live)

15) Joseph Gallison (Another World; One Life To Live; Return to Peyton Place; Days of Our Lives)

16) Jed Allan (The Secret Storm; Days of Our Lives; Santa Barbara; Port Charles; General Hospital)

17) Christopher Bernau (Dark Shadows; The Guiding Light)

18) James Mitchell (Where The Heart Is; All My Children)

19) Stephen Schnetzer (Days of Our Lives; One Life To Live; Another World; As The World Turns; Guiding Light)

20) Nicolas Coster (Young Doctor Malone; The Secret Storm; As The World Turns; Somerset; Another World; One Life To Live; Santa Barbara; All My Children; As The World Turns)

21) Shepperd Strudwick (As The World Turns; Another World; One Life To Live; Love of Life)

22) Lane Davies (Days of Our Lives; Santa Barbara; Bold & the Beautiful; General Hospital)

23) Jordan Clarke (The Guiding Light; Guiding Light)

24) Joseph Mascolo (From These Roots; Days of Our Lives; General Hospital; Santa Barbara; Bold & the Beautiful)

25) Macdonald Carey (Days of Our Lives)

Honorable Mention: Tom Pelphrey; James Pritchett; John Aniston; Robert S. Woods; Tom Eplin; Roger Howarth

Best Daytime Actresses

01) Robin Strasser (Another World; All My Children; One Life To Live)

02) Erika Slezak (One Life To Live)

03) Beverlee McKinsey (Love is a Many Splendored Thing; Another World; Another World; Texas; Guiding Light; General Hospital)

04) Jane Eliot (The Nurses; A Flame in the Wind; General Hospital; Guiding Light; All My Children; Days of Our Lives; The City)

05) Judith Light (One Life To Live)

06) Mary Stuart (Search For Tomorrow; One Life To Live; Guiding Light)

07) Susan Flannery (Days of Our Lives; Bold & the Beautiful)

08) Elizabeth Hubbard (The Guiding Light; The Edge of Night; The Doctors; One Life To Live; As The World Turns)

09) Kim Zimmer (The Doctors; One Life To Live; Guiding Light; Santa Barbara)

10) Constance Ford (Woman with a Past; The Edge of Night; Another World)

11) Victoria Wyndham (Woman with a Past; The Guiding Light; Another World)

12) Jeanne Cooper (Young & the Restless)

13) Ruth Warrick (The Guiding Light; As The World Turns; All My Children)

14) Eileen Fulton (As The World Turns)

15) Denise Alexander (Ben Jerrod; The Clear Horizon; Days of Our Lives; General Hospital; Another World; Sunset Beach)

16) Leslie Charleson (As The World Turns; Love is a Many Splendored Thing; General Hospital)

17) Susan Lucci (All My Children)

18) Emily McLaughlin (Young Doctor Malone; General Hospital)

19) Mary Fickett (Young Doctor Malone; The Edge of Night; The Nurses; The Edge of Night; All My Children)

20) Joan Copeland (The Edge of Night; Love of Life; Search For Tomorrow; One Life To Live)

21) Tudi Wiggins (Love of Life; All My Children)

22) Julia Barr (Ryan's Hope; All My Children)

23) Genie Francis (General Hospital; All My Children; Days of Our Lives)

24) Heather Tom (Young & the Restless; One Life To Live; Bold & the Beautiful)

25) Rosmary Prinz (First Love; As The World Turns; All My Children; How To Survive A Marriage; Ryan's Hope)

Honorable Mention: Suzanne Rogers; Meg Mundy; Jess Walton; Nancy Lee Grahn; Victoria Rowell; Jada Rowland

[P.J.]

I don't think Rux meant I was only saying it because I'm a fan, just maybe that I was losing a little perspective. I'm not sure I'd put Maura as my number one of all time....but I think I'd always put her ahead of Liz Hubbard on a list. Simply because I've always, always like Carly and Maura, it's the combination of love for a character and admiration of her talent. I haven't always liked Lucinda. Maybe it's a sentimental reaction to her years of hounding the Snyders. I admire Liz's talent, but Lucinda's never inspired my devotion like Carly or Barbara (which is a little weird I know, but I liked Babs before and after her conversion to the dark side...). It's a personal thing.

Sorry I got off track. Honestly, although I enjoy the discussion of anything ATWT on the board, I'm not even really sure I agree with the OP's premise that Liz Hubbard is "rarely mentioned" when it comes to best actresses. I think she would and does come up whenever that topic rolls it's way around. At least from CBS fans.

And Steve...I am shocked, SHOCKED that Audrey Peters from LOL doesn't appear on either of your lists.

[SteveFrame]

Audrey is one of the actresses that has been on my top lists before. There are several that have been there and drop off and on from time to time.

In that contest we ran, she did get votes but not enough to make the top 25 or HM.

I love her and always have, she just got edged out by a few others. LOL

[DeeeDee]

Poor Rachel Ames gets the least love.

[SteveFrame]

I agree but at least she has an Emmy nomination for her work.

Jacqueline Courtney and Audrey Peters are the only 2 long running daytime leading ladies (who were on their shows during the Emmy years) that never received an Emmy nomination at all.

You could add Rosemary Prinz to that list too but the majority of her work really happened before the Emmys came along.

[Soapsuds]

I am scratching my head on this one.

I forgot to mention Marie Masters on my list of ATWT's best. Thanks for the reminder. Marie and Liz's scenes during the whole war with John Dixon were priceless.

Steve...this is a Hubbard thread....not our favorites thread......LOL. I only mentioned the other actress because they appear or appeared on ATWT and worked with Hubbard.

[Soapsuds]

Didnt know which post to quote. But I found West work at the beginning very blah. I really wasnt thrilled with her work. I think I started liking her during her fight with Rosanna for Mike. She won me over as an actress. And I also wasn't a CarJack fan at the beginning...LOL.

[P.J.]

I forgive you.

Back to La Liz...sometimes I wonder if some of the "lack of buzz" is because of the lack of male leads too. Other than John, she never had a serious romance on ATWT.

[AllAboutAngst]

I think that could be a part of it. It's again, one of those "out of sight, out of mind" type of things. You rarely see her on screen doing anything significant and she never has a love interest so it is easy for her to slip your mind. On the other hand, a lot of other actresses mentioned have gone through the same thing and are still mentioned often.

I don't think Hubbard is often mentioned by CBS fans or really any fans, as one of the best actresses. More often than not it's the same people. It's like Kathleen Noone, why is she never mentioned? Amazing actress, same for Julia Barr. They're a bit different because they are no longer on daytime, but Hubbard is and is probably mentioned as often as the other two - meaning very rarely.

About Marie Masters and CZP, again, I've always liked CZP but her tendency to go over the top is why I didn't mention her. I've never been a big fan of Marie Masters's work.

[Quent]

I think people tend to blur the line between scene-stealing and good acting. Susan Lucci commands every scene she is in, but I think she is the epitome of why some soap stars are laughed at, just a horrible actress. Elizabeth Hubbard also steals scenes, but she also makes varied acting choices and sometimes subtle acting (remember when she first found out she had cancer?). I believe EH has been nominated about seven or eight times for Lead Actress (as Lucinda), but has never won. To date, I think Martha Byrne and Maura West are the only Best Actress winners from ATWT.

BTW, Steve, thanks for including Maeve McGuire on your Best Actress list. I loved her as Nicole Travis on EON!