I do agree I think he is dictating storyline, but if we are to let Ron off the hook for the actual writing shouldn't we let Higley off the hook during her time as headwriter also because I do believe he was dictating scripts at that time also.

I am just not understanding why we should blame Frons yet not hold Ron accountable for what is being shown on the show now, he is given credit when the show was well received but now it's not his fault.

I think the difference is we have seen what Ron can do when Frons' focus is elsewhere (Asa's death, the end of the Tommy storyline, the first Go Red Ball, May sweeps after the strike, etc...). While under Higley, it was the same script week after week. Higley did an impressive job with OLTL in her first couple of months. She wrapped up the Santi story and put the vets back out in front. Once the slate was clear though, it was a whole different story. She had her favourites (John, Vang, Todd, Blair, Spencer) and that's all we saw. Ron on the other hand is great at using all the characters on the canvas, including characters from the past, whether it is in supporting or front burner roles. No matter how you cut it, everyone has a voice in RC's Llanview. He does a better sense of community that is missing from soaps right now, less Y&R. He creates ripple effects. Unfortunately, others (Frons) are in the way. That may be the biggest argument between Higley and Carlivati; the storytelling. You can tell the difference when RC is writing OLTL and when he is not. With Higley you couldn’t tell the difference.

God, now I realize why they never brought Zach back before--the actor *sucks*--it's hard to take a killer seriously when he uses the tone of voice (and lisp) with EVERY single line.

You forgot how EVERY line ends with "MAN" or "PAL" or "BUDDY"... it's getting seriously ridiculous. I can't even imagine that it's all scripted, I think that's just his "technique" or whatever.

Even if Frons is dictating storyline which I believe he is and has been doing for awhile even during Highley's reign, isn't Ron the one scripting it. I can't understand how it is so easy to excuse the actual writers for what is being shown.

This is exactly how i feel.

Even if there is a mandate from above the HW needs to make it work. I am not saying this is easy at all, but it should be imposable at all. And i will never understand how fans make every single excuse in the world for the HW. The show sucks, some of that blame does go to the HW. A lot of infact, IMHO.

RC seems to be a very hit or miss writer.

That's a really interesting point, and one I'm not sure I can argue against. I guess the only difference I would argue is that RC proved he was capable of doing better. Not saying it was perfect - that's a personal preference. Some loved his early stories, some didn't. But you have to admit it was better than what we're seeing now. And as much as I usually say not to put too much stock in what actors say, it does help his cause that so many actors remain in his corner, which was not the case under Higley.

Days fans had the same issues with Sheffer. His defenders talked about interference, but the stories he came up with to replace what got thrown out (Tinda Lau, Touch the Sky) were still terrible. Not to get off-topic, or get into another DOOL discussion - just making an analogy. So yes - in that regard, RC should be held accountable. But I can only imagine what it must be like to suddenly have to invent something to fill five hours a week on the spot because you just got the rug pulled out from under you. But you're right - that doesn't mean they should be completely off-the-hook either.

Some very valid points you make there.

What's happening to this show?

The only thing I found really enjoyable yesterday was Charlie/Viki. Viki needs to be the STAR of the show just like what Pratt has done with AMC making Erica the STAR.

I am so tired of Stacey......

I am so tired of Stacey......

It's times like these when I thank God the "Shop the Soaps" era is behind us. Because you just know ABCD would be peddling a "Stripper Stacy" doll if it wasn't.

I think the difference is we have seen what Ron can do when Frons' focus is elsewhere (Asa's death, the end of the Tommy storyline, the first Go Red Ball, May sweeps after the strike, etc...). While under Higley, it was the same script week after week. Higley did an impressive job with OLTL in her first couple of months. She wrapped up the Santi story and put the vets back out in front. Once the slate was clear though, it was a whole different story. She had her favourites (John, Vang, Todd, Blair, Spencer) and that's all we saw. Ron on the other hand is great at using all the characters on the canvas, including characters from the past, whether it is in supporting or front burner roles. No matter how you cut it, everyone has a voice in RC's Llanview. He does a better sense of community that is missing from soaps right now, less Y&R. He creates ripple effects. Unfortunately, others (Frons) are in the way. That may be the biggest argument between Higley and Carlivati; the storytelling. You can tell the difference when RC is writing OLTL and when he is not. With Higley you couldn’t tell the difference.

I think there is more than one factor to consider. RC is a gifted storyteller and as such I understand why he is vigorously defended. Daytime needs gifted storytellers and Llanview certainly deserved it. At the same time, chyti has a relevant point. It is very selective to suggest that RC is only responsible for the stories we like watching and that Frons is responsible for what we don't like.

I also think that it is unfair to compare pre-strike RC to post-strike RC. Pre-strike RC took over the reigns and spent a few months transitioning the show from Higley's domain over to his vision. It is understandable that he would yield different results during that phase than what we are seeing right now. RC was impressive but I wonder if it was easier to see what needed to be corrected when had to repair someone else's vision other than his own?

I'm guessing that Frons interfered to some degree but the fact of the matter is that the job of the Head Writer is to strike that balance in pleasing the network (Frons) and also guiding his vision into the capable hands of his team who should be working to please the audience. I have every confidence it will improve but we'll have to realize that RC like any other Head Writer before him will have good stories and bad stories.

Edited April 15, 200916 yr by harlemblues

I think the difference is we have seen what Ron can do when Frons' focus is elsewhere (Asa's death, the end of the Tommy storyline, the first Go Red Ball, May sweeps after the strike, etc...). While under Higley, it was the same script week after week. Higley did an impressive job with OLTL in her first couple of months. She wrapped up the Santi story and put the vets back out in front. Once the slate was clear though, it was a whole different story. She had her favourites (John, Vang, Todd, Blair, Spencer) and that's all we saw. Ron on the other hand is great at using all the characters on the canvas, including characters from the past, whether it is in supporting or front burner roles. No matter how you cut it, everyone has a voice in RC's Llanview. He does a better sense of community that is missing from soaps right now, less Y&R. He creates ripple effects. Unfortunately, others (Frons) are in the way. That may be the biggest argument between Higley and Carlivati; the storytelling. You can tell the difference when RC is writing OLTL and when he is not. With Higley you couldn't tell the difference.

I agree oltl. It's one thing when I never liked anything under Dena Higley. I just didn't. It was all pod stories and every reveal drug on forever. I never liked anything during her time as HW. With Ron, I've really liked some of his work, and like now -- I am just flabbergasted. It's hard to believe this is his work, because I've seen his work and I loved it. So I don't know who is responsible for this mess, but I just find it hard to believe it's Ron because it bears none of the marks that made his writing so exceptional before.

What's happening to this show?

The only thing I found really enjoyable yesterday was Charlie/Viki. Viki needs to be the STAR of the show just like what Pratt has done with AMC making Erica the STAR.

I am so tired of Stacey......

I sit by you my friend. Viki definitely needs to be back to center force on this show. Way too much teen emphasis and way too much overexposure of the same few, and I will add way too much new character emphasis -cough-Stacy-cough. Did you see we had a three way newbie bit with Kyle, Stacy and Scky? What?

I will say this, ABC wants to do contemporary ripped from the headlines stories. They have the perfect set up: Viki owns the Banner. We all know newspapers are dying, why not do story with Viki losing the Banner and how that impacts the Lord legacy. Tie it to Todd since the too owns a newspaper. Do you expect me to believe that Llanview, some rinkydink down has 2 newspapers going? Come on.

I say it again: Viki and Charlie are love

I also want to add, I am not an RC apologist or even his greatest fan, but even I see that this show has some outer interference going on, which must be Frons, because I sure do not get how this show has turned into this mess and it really all started in January and has not changed.

Edited April 15, 200916 yr by SlezaksOLTL

I sit by you my friend. Viki definitely needs to be back to center force on this show. Way too much teen emphasis and way too much overexposure of the same few, and I will add way too much new character emphasis -cough-Stacy-cough. Did you see we had a three way newbie bit with Kyle, Stacy and Scky? What?

I will say this, ABC wants to do contemporary ripped from the headlines stories. They have the perfect set up: Viki owns the Banner. We all know newspapers are dying, why not do story with Viki losing the Banner and how that impacts the Lord legacy. Tie it to Todd since the too owns a newspaper. Do you expect me to believe that Llanview, some rinkydink down has 2 newspapers going? Come on.

I say it again: Viki and Charlie are love

I love the idea of the newspapers returning! I'd much rather watch stories centered around the newspapers over the police department

Another one bites the dust. I hate TSJ's Todd. He's such a weak watered down version and so inconsistently played it's like he's no character at all but just different dayplayers that show up to further plot and look like the same person. But I was sort of looking forward to where they took Todd and Tea this go around. She's BSC and he's a sociopath, but I thought perhaps that might blend into something truly romantic. If today's recaps are accurate (I didn't watch) their scenes today define disgusting.

Another one bites the dust. I hate TSJ's Todd. He's such a weak watered down version and so inconsistently played it's like he's no character at all but just different dayplayers that show up to further plot and look like the same person. But I was sort of looking forward to where they took Todd and Tea this go around. She's BSC and he's a sociopath, but I thought perhaps that might blend into something truly romantic. If today's recaps are accurate (I didn't watch) their scenes today define disgusting.

I don't know which recaps you read but the direction was awkward. Viki and Charlie and Jared and Natalie's scenes were better directed. Something was off with Todd and Tea today.

I don't know which recaps you read but the direction was awkward. Viki and Charlie and Jared and Natalie's scenes were better directed. Something was off with Todd and Tea today.

Viki and Charlie and Natalie and Jared were on today? <perks up>

What I was referring to was that apparently Todd yells at Tea to get on her knees and beg him and somehow that turns her on?

We got preempted by a fuckin' archbishop, but this sounds like standard Tea to me. At this point she's compelling to me no matter how fucked-up it gets. I don't see much of a disconnect between Tea of today and Tea of the rape trial, except that she's finally "reached her goal." Everything she's done is for Todd. She's a fascinating, incredibly sick character.

Edited April 15, 200916 yr by Vee

Viki and Charlie and Natalie and Jared were on today? <perks up>

What I was referring to was that apparently Todd yells at Tea to get on her knees and beg him and somehow that turns her on?

No.

Those on today were:

Starr, Todd, Cole, Lauren Hoffman (drug rehab woman), Markko, Rachel, Bo, Shaun, Destiny, Becca, Justin, Tea, Nora, John, Zach, Langston, and Matthew.