That doesn't make you WRONG, does it?. All you're doing is asking for what you want to see. And why shouldn't you? Or I? Or anyone else? Technically all of these "agendas" are just viewers telling TPTB what they want to see. Is that wrong? No. When viewers stop having "agendas" that means they no longer care.

How do we know its for the best of the show? Does the fact that "many fans don't want that" make it right? I think overexposure of any character is bad for any show. For example, I (used to) love both Todd Manning and John McBain but if I were in charge of OLTL they'd both get their screen time cut by half at least. Hell, I'd call ME on his way to work and say "You know that book tour you've been putting off? Take it. Take it NOW!" And TSJ wouldn't see the inside of the studio for at least six weeks. Does that mean I have a "get rid of them" agenda? Perhaps. But when I went to ME's fan event last year, he recounted a conversation he had with a co-star who didn't like the changes in their character. He told them that "the more airtime your character gets, the faster they go downhill." So I think even the actors would rather have less screentime, if that screentime was truly meaningful. Of course, some would rather be on every day. But some would also rather schill Monavie. They can't set the standard.

So perhaps some of these "agendas" are also for the best of the show. Or at the very least that what the people fighting for them believe.

ITA. Over exposure is the kiss of death.

And I think there is some confusion here about what is a preference and what is an agenda. Just because you prefer certain characters over others does not qualify as having an agenda, IMO. I'll have to formulate my thoughts better so I can explain the difference.

And I think there is some confusion here about what is a preference and what is an agenda. Just because you prefer certain characters over others does not qualify as having an agenda, IMO. I'll have to formulate my thoughts better so I can explain the difference.

May I take a shot at explaining the difference? At least as I see it.

As you said in another thread, you and I have been on opposite sides before regarding OLTL, IOW we've had what some might call opposing "agendas." BUT...

During our clashes I believe that neither of us was trying to determine what others should be allowed to see and/or enjoy. Because I think that is what it means to set an agenda. We were both passionately stating what we liked, loved and/or wanted to see a.k.a. our preference (even if it meant throwing down like the Bloods and the Crips )

I'm not presuming to speak for you, so my apologies if I've misconstrued what you were trying to say.

Edited January 4, 200916 yr by marceline

But see that is the way I feel about Kendall and even Greenlee and throw in Ryan and Zach to some degree.

But for years now the show esp. has been about Kendall to the point I am sick of her and need a break. Even with her in the coma there hasn't been much of a break from her. She appeared 10 times in December.

I get kicked in the butt though when I mention that.

The whole sextette from hell needs a big long break if you ask me.

But as I have said as much as I would like them to disappear I know that many fans don't want that - so I will tolerate them for the best of the show. But to me for many fans to call the Carey's, etc. on their [!@#$%^&*] is like the pot calling the kettle black when their faves have eaten the show just as much.

I am not saying that to you but to many on the boards who hate Ryan, the Careys, etc.

Ain't it the truth, Steve. It's hard for people to wrap their heads around the fact that Kendall has been a frontburner character for basically six and a half years. I take off a half because of the coma time and other times where she might have had a lull in appearances, but I think giving her six months is probably more than what's true. But she's Erica's daughter! But this! But that! I don't care whose daughter she is. She ate the show. The Kendall Hart Show. And when Zach hopped into the picture. it became The Zendall Show.

May I take a shot at explaining the difference? At least as I see it.

As you said in another thread, you and I have been on opposite sides before regarding OLTL, IOW we've had what some might call opposing "agendas." BUT...

During our clashes I believe that neither of us was trying to determine what others should be allowed to see and/or enjoy. Because I think that is what it means to set an agenda. We were both passionately stating what we liked, loved and/or wanted to see a.k.a. our preference (even if it meant throwing down like the Bloods and the Crips )

I'm not presuming to speak for you, so my apologies if I've misconstrued what you were trying to say.

No worries. You saved me no telling how much time, and you expressed exactly what I meant far more concisely than I probably would have. It becomes an "agenda" when you try to impose your preference on someone else. Thanks Marceline.

people hate Krystal, not because of the reasons you mention, but because quite simply the Kareys ate the show. People want to get rid of her because she's been forced down everyone's throat for years.

Yep.

She hates her vagina.

Guza and JFP are perfectly paired when it comes to violence against women.

There is a big difference in preferences and agenda and I think most people realize that.

We do all have preferences - what we like; what we don't like; favorite couples; etc.

Agendas take that way too far. You get into these campaigns to get couples love scenes, write in campaigns to demand story goes your way and such - those are when it starts to go way over into an agenda and not just a preference.

It is just like last year when John Black was killed on Days. The show rocked for that week and a few afterward, but there was this big campaign to bring him back. The fans did not have in their mind what was best for the show which would have been to try and gain some respectability by not making the great weeks worth of acting in vain by yet another overturned death. Also not having Drake Hogestyn back on contract would have greatly helped with the budget. I was very mad when I found out Drake was being fired and John was being killed. But I would not participate in the write in campaign to bring him back because I am so against overturning deaths.

Agendas totally forget what is best for the show and become very personal in nature. That is very different than just your preferences.

See the way I am with Zendell. I absolutely hate them. I see no value to them as a couple, but I do know they have fans. My preference would be to have them gone, but that is not what is best for the show. Kendall is Erica's daughter and right now the Kanes are one of the families that are stable so Kendall needs to stay around.

Now yes I totally agree that it is better for the show that her air time is greatly reduced but she also needs to be there for key scenes. Having her completely off screen for six weeks or whatever just to satisfy my preference wouldn't be good for the show either.

My agenda would be yes to wipe out Zendell from the face of Pine Valley. But that is an agenda that is not good for the show overall.

Agendas are the big problem - preferences are not.

To me, an opinion becomes an agenda when a person fails to consider that there are people who don't necessarily agree with them. It becomes almost like a competition to see who can influence TPTB more. It no longer becomes plot-driven or character-driven writing, it becomes fan-driven writing, where they write everything as so not to piss off one group of fans. It's why Nuke will never split up for longer than five minutes, even though it would make perfect and natural sense for them to do just that.

To me, an opinion becomes an agenda when a person fails to consider that there are people who don't necessarily agree with them. It becomes almost like a competition to see who can influence TPTB more. It no longer becomes plot-driven or character-driven writing, it becomes fan-driven writing, where they write everything as so not to piss off one group of fans. It's why Nuke will never split up for longer than five minutes, even though it would make perfect and natural sense for them to do just that.

But then there is that complaint, that in this dying day tptb should aim to please the fans- "give the fans what they want". In theory- Hold onto the viewers.

On the other end of the spectrum, there lies the LML who think they can bring something to a show and leave their mark.

Once again, "what's best for the show" lies in the hands of those who are believed to have "the better taste" and are able to step outside of their personal preferences, which most people don't know how to do. Let's face it- everyone thinks they have good taste, and few people actually do.

I can ride along with popular opinion, but how does one measure what's popular? Through the soap polls? It comes down to balance. Most of these shows don't have a good handle on who's watching- we all know many use those pointless focus groups.

It's the fear of losing a voice that pushes these fans to agendas- "power in numbers". When in fact most groups fail to represent any one person's views on a show and misrepresent many viewers opinions on certain topics. It's a balancing act that will never be perfect- but in the end tptb should always maintain they are the creative deciders of their show- not agendas, popularity , or critics. Their focus should always be on their vision for the show.

But then there is that complaint, that in this dying day tptb should aim to please the fans- "give the fans what they want". In theory- Hold onto the viewers.

On the other end of the spectrum, there lies the LML who think they can bring something to a show and leave their mark.

Once again, "what's best for the show" lies in the hands of those who are believed to have "the better taste" and are able to step outside of their personal preferences, which most people don't know how to do. Let's face it- everyone thinks they have good taste, and few people actually do.

I can ride along with popular opinion, but how does one measure what's popular? Through the soap polls? It comes down to balance. Most of these shows don't have a good handle on who's watching- we all know many use those pointless focus groups.

It's the fear of losing a voice that pushes these fans to agendas- "power in numbers". When in fact most groups fail to represent any one person's views on a show and misrepresent many viewers opinions on certain topics. It's a balancing act that will never be perfect- but in the end tptb should always maintain they are the creative deciders of their show- not agendas, popularity , or critics. Their focus should always be on their vision for the show.

But it has to be hard to "give the fans what they want" when TPTB are hearing X amount of views from X amount of fans. What I as a fan want is not gonna always be what the next person wants or what the next person wants or what the next person wants. And so there's the competition. Fans get together with people who share their point of view on a certain topic, and the group gets bigger and louder and it gets to the point where they want what they want and anyone who wants otherwise is delusional, trying to cock-block their happiness or, my personal favorite, "drinking Kool-Aid."

I think what's best for the show is to simply have TPTB who know it and understand it inside and out. That way, they won't have to rely on what the fans want. If they know what they're doing, they'll write the stories and the fans will want the stories that they write. They won't please everybody all of the time, but I think a good fan is someone who may not agree with something, but at least accept it and understand where it comes from. If they can't, either the fan is full of agenda or the writing just sucks.

But it has to be hard to "give the fans what they want" when TPTB are hearing X amount of views from X amount of fans. What I as a fan want is not gonna always be what the next person wants or what the next person wants or what the next person wants. And so there's the competition. Fans get together with people who share their point of view on a certain topic, and the group gets bigger and louder and it gets to the point where they want what they want and anyone who wants otherwise is delusional, trying to cock-block their happiness or, my personal favorite, "drinking Kool-Aid."

I think what's best for the show is to simply have TPTB who know it and understand it inside and out. That way, they won't have to rely on what the fans want. If they know what they're doing, they'll write the stories and the fans will want the stories that they write. They won't please everybody all of the time, but I think a good fan is someone who may not agree with something, but at least accept it and understand where it comes from. If they can't, either the fan is full of agenda or the writing just sucks.

IA. just write the show and stop bullshitting.

But how many offliners are complaining when things don't go their way? I just started getting online less than a year ago , but when I wasn't online I didn't have half as many complaints as I did once I started reading back stage drama and dealing with disagreeing fan groups. Unaware of some of the "rules/agendas" I found myself in tiffs with the same groups I so call "belonged to". Couplings I never had problems with were labled "enemies" and I "traitor" because I didn't agree with so called agendas. Mean spirited fans were attacking characters for these so-called agendas. It wasn't pretty and I can't say it didn't influenced how I felt about the shows.

I have to argue that continued interaction with the show past it's viewing hour increases this agenda based behavior. IMO most offliners could care less and therefore are more willing to accept the direction the show wishes to go in. When you're not constantly engaging in the show as if your life depends on it, you accept these executive decisions as choices the character made. But the double edge sword to that is, without agendas many will easily turn the television off and find better programming. TPTB depend on agendas and toy with agendas to keep people tuned in. That agenda is "keeping people hooked without any plans of giving them payoff".

AS an ex-Passions fan, I had to appreciate JER for his vision and balance with such things. You were always provided some form of payoff, if only for a brief while but you never had control of his show.

It's why Nuke will never split up for longer than five minutes, even though it would make perfect and natural sense for them to do just that.

Bianca has way more action than Luke ever will.

I think what's best for the show is to simply have TPTB who know it and understand it inside and out. That way, they won't have to rely on what the fans want. If they know what they're doing, they'll write the stories and the fans will want the stories that they write. They won't please everybody all of the time, but I think a good fan is someone who may not agree with something, but at least accept it and understand where it comes from. If they can't, either the fan is full of agenda or the writing just sucks.

I agree...if the really good stories are there, with layered characters written well, we as viewers (and human beings for that matter) who may be going through similar problems can relate to these characters, shouldn't that be enough to make us want to tune in everyday? If we can understand or sympathize or even get angry at the choices & decisions facing these characters, people will keep tuning in and the show will keep going. I realize its tough to come up with a new story or new twist after so many decades but ya know, real life repeats itself in many ways and with different characters (well written) then things can and should play out differently.

Of course not everyone connects with all or the same characters/stories...all the more reason to have a variety of interlinked storylines going on simultaneously. Having certain characters hog the screen day after day is, IMHO, the kiss of death...after all you can't please all the people all the time so maybe it's best to please as many as you can at least some of the time.

And then again, maybe I don't have a clue & its all stunts and CGI and special guest stints and focus groups and fanbases.......but to me, good storytelling begins and ends with good writing/stories.

Nice thread btw....)

Edited January 4, 200916 yr by Desertrose

To me, an opinion becomes an agenda when a person fails to consider that there are people who don't necessarily agree with them. It becomes almost like a competition to see who can influence TPTB more. It no longer becomes plot-driven or character-driven writing, it becomes fan-driven writing, where they write everything as so not to piss off one group of fans. It's why Nuke will never split up for longer than five minutes, even though it would make perfect and natural sense for them to do just that.

Yeah! An agenda is a preference on steroids.

Yeah! An agenda is a preference on steroids.

:lol: