The Politics Thread

[JaneAusten]

I don't think a planned interview is going to stop the tide of media criticism or concern by voters. Maybe a little, but the fact is Biden needs to put himself out there more. I frankly think the debate while terrible for him, was not all his fault.  Whoever had him prepping with all those facts should know that this debate was not really ever about detailed policy. And some of it sounded more like Hillary who is a policy wonk, than Biden. 

One of the things I like most about Biden is his authenticity.  And the best parts of the debate for him were when those things showed through.  I mean who doesn't remember Biden telling Trump "Will you just shut up" in the first debate they had.  Best part of it and I think a lot of people appreciated the fact he said that.

 

[Khan]

I agree.

[DRW50]

One of the problems is how much this has spread from the media to the party. They are writing story after story for the press - today alone a number of Democrats have gone to the press to complain, whether calling for Biden to be replaced, saying that his issues clearly go beyond just this debate, whining that some of his people called them "bedwetters" (which the media says about Democrats all the time - only NOW are they upset), and most shamefully, Jared Golden of Maine seemingly panicking so much about his chances of re-election that he decided to not only say he thinks Trump will win, but downplay that Trump is a threat to democracy. This is a huge gift for the GOP, the Trump campaign, and the members of the press who have spent years insisting Trump is no big deal and any claims that he is are hyperventilation.

https://www.bangordailynews.com/2024/07/02/opinion/opinion-contributor/jared-golden-donald-trump-going-to-win-election-democracy-be-just-fine/

They've started a train that is very hard to stop.

[Vee]

That's not that unusual for the party bedwetters, though. Eventually most of them will fall in line. And again, this is all too early, too soon, the media has shot their wad too early gleeful at the thought of finally getting revenge on Boring Biden, and Trump is too stupid to not screw up more.

I think the interview is just part of that. I agree he will need to do much more. And I agree they need to let Joe be Joe. But I also don't think voter concern is as strong as that of the media. Despite some polls.

Edited July 3, 2024 by Vee

[Juliajms2]

I wouldn't count on that.  Maybe I sound like an alarmist, but I believe he is capable of rounding people up and putting them in death camps. He keeps Mein Kampf on his bed table. For the love of God, who does that?!! It's probably the only book he's read in the last 20 years. I truly believe Trump has anti social personality disorder.

Whenever I hear conservatives worrying about our country changing, it just reminds me of how short sighted people really are. American culture will go on, until it doesn't, just like every other nation in the last 5,000 years. In 500 years, if America even exists it will be unrecognizable to all of us. We have no idea what's going to happen and ultimately it won't be our problem. Still people like Newt Gingrich try to hang on to some idealized version if America that never existed in the first place.

[JaneAusten]

I'm not blind to the dangers we are in. It's happening all over the world.  I have seen politicians so sure of themselves they shoot themselves in the foot.  David Cameron was one and now I see Macron.   But how can Europeans in countries who were in the middle of WW2 be turning to the same factions that got them war and a potential destruction of their own societies? That didn't happen here because we had better angels in our leadership, although there were a healthy amount of people who wanted the same thing here.

Read about Father Coughlin and his following. It puts people who claim to have large followings today to shame. I'll also remind people that we still had Jim Crow, Native Americans, and the Japanese and how they were treated. Read about the mass deportations of MEXICAN AMERICANS to Mexico at the onset of the Great Depression.

The other part people forget is the military.  People say Trump will use the military against Americans. Those same people also forget the populations that make up the military today.  I guess the unnerving part is how many Americans would just use the same rhetoric they do today. "I just want to live my life, don't talk to me about that".  Yeah that doesn't work. We've seen it all over history.

I'm not minimizing anything.  The dumbest people IMO are those in the media who somehow really believe they are so special they are protected. They including their leadership would be some of the first to go.

[Vee]

A small thread:

 

[marceline]

This. This whole op - and I do believe it's a foreign op - has failed miserably. None of this mess has hurt Biden. It's just pissed off older voters. (I define older as 50+). Nothing about this wins independents and moderates. 

[DRW50]

I'm not entirely sure how much trust to put in polls anyway, but in many polls, state and national, Trump had already opened up a lead of a few points over Biden (with some outliers claiming 5-6 or higher). Some of those were pre-debate, or during the debate, or right after. Then there are the Republican polls that are created to flood the zone and draw a lot of coverage that claim Biden will lose New Jersey or Virginia.

Any time polls come out bragging about Trump's big lead with younger voters, or how well he's doing with minority voters, I'm wary (even if I do think societal conditions and the Rogans and Tates and tiktok accounts out there have turned a lot of younger people to the right and into bigotry), but I do think Biden is probably narrowly behind or at best dead even at the moment. 

I don't say that because I think he needs to drop out - I don't believe any other Democrat would do better, no matter how much some weep for Andy Beshear.

Edited July 3, 2024 by DRW50

[Juliajms2]

I don't either. We need to stick with Biden or we'll live to regret it soon enough, imo.

This economy still befuddles me and I do think it's hurting Biden unfairly.  We have what seems like a really good job market. I don't see what Biden could have differently to stop inflation.

I didn't grow up in the middle class, so it's hard for me to relate to some of the things average people seem to feel entitled to. It's like the blue collar workers in 2016 vowing to vote Trump because they are only making $70,000 a year. Girl, wut? If you can't make it on $70,000 a year in the Rust Belt you need to think about your choices.

Now people are going to sell out their neighbors because interest rates are too high to buy a new SUV every few years? Stop buying things you don't need and blaming Biden because servicing your debt is expensive! Yeah, I know I sound like a Boomer (I'm 50). Why does anyone think that man will help them? That's what I'll never understand.

 

[Wendy]

Got wavering family or friends? Be sure to show them what the GQP has planned with Project 2025!

Criminalizing porn (hey, not my speed, but some are into it!).

No birth control.

A blueprint in having the little woman stay at home while the big, strong man works! And that is just the start of the horror story in waiting!

Please register in order to view this content

 

Edited July 4, 2024 by Wendy

[DRW50]

It's saddening, if not surprising, how many, especially on the dead end left, love to say, "this is already happening and Democrats don't care," or dismiss it was "fearmongering." They used to say the same about the end of Roe...which they now just blame on Democrats after saying before it would never happen.

[Vee]

I feel this thread is a fairly accurate take. I also feel the media are absolutely overplaying their hands in glee.

 

I do think it's hurt him in some quarters, and I do think (since I first posted that, as we've seen some numbers since) it's getting bad. But I also still think it may yet be too early and too much from the media (which loves to count him out) if the WH is prepared to play this out and get him out in front of enough people and unfortunately, enough craven Beltway talking heads strongly and forcefully. It's going to be work. But fortunately, it's also still July. In the end, if he can push back hard with a full court media blitz and play this out, I think it can burn itself out by the end of the month (if not earlier) and leave them nowhere to go. But we'll see.

Edited July 4, 2024 by Vee

[JaneAusten]

I agree with all of this and we just can't brush it off.  I wasn't super concerned originally but as time has gone on, and the lack of initiative on the part of his staff and family(yes I'll say this) has been alarming.  I am not sure what bubble they are living in, but the dismissiveness of current elected officials is not it.  They can't pretend people can unsee what was seen. And continuing to shield the president has not helped.  It's now been a week, and as of yet, not really any aggressive strategy to push back. there is time but there is not. And wasting a week now post debate?  I put that on the 20 people who surround him on a regular basis.  I like the President a lot and he's done a lot, but his team needs to be more aggressive.

We also have to be realistic.  How the presidency ages a person.  I am old enough to remember Carter in 4 years and the big difference.  And he was relatively young at 52.  But he is running for 4 more years.  Lets be honest about that and what the impact to him could be.

[janea4old]

 

Link to full thread:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1808861704970752116.html

Edited July 4, 2024 by janea4old