November 17-21, 2008

[dm.]

When are the dailies going to be posted?

[rhinohide]

I both agree and disagree with this. Because I am contrary like that.

Writers cannot write happy couples, because they are boring. Agreed. That doesn't mean they can't write couples who are deeply in love with one another and committed, but have angst and conflict. It's more challenging to keep them together and find other ways to create that drama, but if any part of soap story-telling were easy, we would love all the soaps and everybody would be watching them. It's harder to write long term couples. The easy solution to shake things up and keep things interesting is introduce an interloper that tears them apart, and then tell the long road to finding their way back together again. But as TnB and Josh and Reva, and many many others have proven -- that gets boring and predictable too. Mac and Rachel Corey are an example of one couple that I think was done very well for many years.

And certainly you can't keep every couple (or perhaps any couple) together permanently, if for no other reason than at some point personnel issues get in the way. If Thorsten Kaye leaves AMC, should we kill off Kendall too, or keep her on the show and reduce her role to that of mother, best friend and daughter? Fans are mad that Cady McClain was let go, but should Tad Martin be written out? As a fan of the characters more than of the performers, I agree that characters shouldn't be confined to a "pairing" just because fans of that pairing won't accept something different. TPTB shouldn't cave in to those demands. But the other side of that coin, and a glaring problem with OLTL and ABC soaps in general is that they have almost NO couples that represent that minority that realistically exists irl, that is together and in a committed relationship and are not in danger of breaking up. If realism is what you think they should be going for, they shouldn't ignore that bit of reality either.

I've always said that fans who want their faves to fall in love, get married, have babies and live happily ever after are really looking for a fairy tale, not a soap opera.

[miajere]

You just reminded me of why I hate fan wars!!! But I also think it has to do with the unclear vision these shows have period. They seem more interested in getting couples on the top 10 couples in SOD, than presenting clear characters that we can grow with.

[WorldTurner]

Is 2.9 really correct for ATWT on Wednesday? While it would be great to see, based on the number of viewers it looks like it should probably be 2.0.

Thanks

[Toups]

Thanks for catching that. LOL

[rhinohide]

I agree miajere, although I confess I have participated (to put it mildly) in fan wars myself. I also agree that tptb just aren't committed to the stories they want to tell.

[WorldTurner]

LOL I was all excited for a minute when I saw that and then thought nope there's no way that can be! It would be nice though.

[Soapsuds]

Haha...ATWT's highest Total Viewers was on Wednesday when Brian kissed Luke.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

I want Luke to lose his virginity to Brian...

Just to piss a certain fanbase off....

[miajere]

Who hasn't? it isn't until you re-watch the videos and realize the network has been making fools out of all involved, that you bury it in the sand.

Looking at what's happened in the last year- I can only think of a few stories that have been told in completion. How is one suppose to invest in anything happening when the majority of longterm stories are dropped midway. (I'm not counting the stories that take place over a couple of weeks.) Although I'm no longer a fan- I can imagine that's why OLTL does deserve kudos for completing much of what they've started- whether or not they're good could be argued. Young and the Restless is doing a much better job with that as of late, as they have the cast, history, characters to make all things worthwhile.

[dragonflies]

Another problem with soaps is they've driven away what was the bulk of their core audience for YEARS: Women.

You don't write a storyline like Marty begging her gang rapist to screw her, and not expect to drive away viewers, especially female viewers. It's stuff like is why soaps will NEVER evolve, especially when you get RC acting surprised that people would be offended

Sure I know times have changed and alot of men watch too

Not feeling the Pratt love either, IMO he's very overrated, so far the ONLY thing he seems to have done right is how he's writing Erica & Adam. The Annie storyline had potential but fell flat when it was reduced to her going crazy cause Ryan didnt wub her anymore. Of course it's about Ryan, another big problem with AMC

[Soapsuds]

The regular viewer cares about Luke. He comes from an established family in Oakdale. I doubt the regulary viewer would give two [!@#$%^&*] about what happens to Noah. If Luke found someone knew who made him happy the regular viewer would be all for it.

As you say it's that fanbase that would be pissed. I hope LUke loses his virginity to anyone besides Noah. Of course it must be a male.

[MarkH]

I even think...if written PROPERLY (which it won't be)...Luke COULD lose his virginity to Brian.

I realize that is stretching things, and I'm not advocating for this. But I want to agree with you. The rooting value is with Luke. As long as Luke is loved and cared for...that's really all we care about.

[SteveFrame]

As I have said over and over again this is NOT THE FIRST TIME that women viewers have been offended at something seen on a soap opera. Women have been offended often throughout the years. In fact both men and women viewers have been offended.

I will say that there is a totally different generation of viewers who watch today and that is where the difference is. I guess you could say the former viewers would have to be more open minded. Even with illegal abortions and mixed race stories that were highly offensive to the times those viewers did not give up - they gave the shows another chance. Both the Pat Matthews abortion and the Carla Bernudi black/white romance came within the very first year of the soaps AW and OLTL and both soaps survived for many years after offending a large portion of their small audiences.

Again it goes back to the new generation where as I have talked about here we get mad over firings and threaten or do leave; we get mad over our favorite couple not being together; we get offended over a story and leave.

I am not saying that anyone should suspend their beliefs over anything and stick with a show if it totally offends you. All I am saying is we need to give things a chance. That is something we just do not do often enough anymore.

I get so amazed right now in so many of the discussions about Days the discussion is so often not about what can be done to help Days but who is the most important cast member to the show. And in the end it is not going to amount to a hill of beans who was most important to the show.

If fans do not band together and try to come up with what is best for the shows and not what is best for them and their faves then it ain't going to matter at all. Because there ain't going to be anymore Jarlena, Bope, Zendall, Liaison, JaSam, LuSam, etc. Because they are going to all be gone to the great soap heaven in the sky never to be seen or heard from again.

[rhinohide]

So True! Live and learn.

I do think Carlivati does follow through much better than some of his predecessors. I don't think they do long term stories anymore. Everything has to fit in that 13 week cycle they use as their boundary. And they're too quick to switch horses in mid-stream in my opinion.