November 17-21, 2008

[rhinohide]

I read over this and it sounds like a call to action. Like there's something we, as individuals should do to save the genre. Like saving the whales or something. And while I agree with you in principle, that we shouldn't be so quick to turn away because of one distasteful story, or the loss of one character we are invested in -- I don't think anyone is saying that's what they're doing. It's been a consistent erosion that's taken place over a long period of time, and everyone has a straw that breaks the camel's back. This is not our mission. While I will be very sad if/when the day comes that there are no more daytime soaps, it doesn't meet the scale of importance as the extinction of a species. My role in this whole mess is to watch as long as I am entertained. The day I stop being entertained, I should stop watching -- and over the years, I have done this many times. I've gone years without watching soaps, but eventually got pulled back in.

I think what a lot of people have been saying is that they're tired of investing in a show when it's very clear that the people who create the show don't really care if I am entertained or not.

[miajere]

Much better follow through, for better or worst. My problem is, I don't enjoy his stories.

I'm loving what CBS has done on their website. Now, whenever they load the day's video, they allow viewers to watch it together and chat, and throw things at the characters. It's fun, and it makes you wanna watch the same episodes three times over. ABC is so behind.

[SteveFrame]

The problems I am addressing are not just those that have reached the final straw or are just not being entertained it is the symptomatic problem of Jack/Jennifer leaving the show and fans leave with them only to return when they come back and then leaving again - constantly posting messages saying they will only return when the show gives in and brings them back.

The arguments over which actor, character or couple has the biggest fan base and that is who the writers have slapped in the face.

And I mean just look around at the DAys threads on many boards where the John/Marlena fans and the Bope fans and other fans are tearing one another apart over which one is the most important couple on the show. Instead of sitting back and enjoying the last days of them on the show they are attacking and alienating other fans and making threats to the show.

And I mean when in the world did it become a contest of which fanbase has been pissed on the most. Because if that is what soap viewership is all about and when a person should quit and feel like the show has left them then I want to get in on the contest. I mean I invested 14 years in Bill & Laura on Days only to have them breakup and disappear 4 years after they were together and even divorce and move on offscreen. I invested 14 years in Doug & Julie on Days only to have them be fired - divorce and remarry offscreen. I invested 8 years in Don & Marlena on Days only to have them breakup and never have the chance to get back together. I invested 7 years in Steve & Alice on Another World only to have both actors fired and the character of Steve killed off.

I could go on and on and on and on and on. I read all these threads where so and so have been pissed on and are so tired of it and so angry over it. Well many a soap fan has been pissed on long before many of these couples were ever put together. If those fans had the same thinking as the new generation of fans there would have never been many of the couples that are there today because the soaps would have died long ago.

Everyone has the right to have their faves, get mad and move on if they like. That is the right of every individual.

All I am saying in my last thread and in here too is that many times esp. in this age of fan we are not thinking about what is best for the show - just what is best for them and for their favorites. I guess it goes back to what so many of us said over and over. It used to be that soap opera fans were fans of the show and there are still a few of those around but the majority of fans are no longer that way today. Instead of AMC fans it is more apparent that there are Zendell Fans, Rylee Fans, Rendall, Jabe, etc. fans. Instead of Days fans there are Jarlena fans, Bope fans, etc. For those fans it can pretty much be said that the show and other performers can be sacrificed at any point in favor of their couple or character coming out on top. In the end that is what is destroying the very shows that house their faves.

That is what I am saying is if fans don't get out of the mode of couple/character thinking and more into the show thinking - then they will not only lose the show but their faves as well. In the end it is just not going to matter because it is all going to be gone. I know that most don't agree with that and that is fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and I doubt anyone will even care that I said it.

All that matters at this point is that I see 3 shows trying harder than I have seen them in awhile to embrace some of the general thinking. They are not pushing any character or couple to the forefront but have been better at balance and I just hope they stick with it. I am loving it and even loving characters like John McBain, Kendall Slater, Zach Slater, Ryan Lavery, and so many others that I have hated so much in the last few years due to their overexposure. They are balanced out and I can enjoy them a whole lot better and even see some of the reason their fans like them so well because when they were overexposed and the be all and end all of the show I couldn't see why anyone could care about them at all. But now in the proper dose I can appreciate them too. That is the way I used to feel about every show I watched, and I am glad to be able to feel that way about OLTL and AMC again. I just wish the other shows would take notes esp. GH and ATWT.

[Reddi]

I was worried about this week for AMC, and it seems my fears were realized. I don't think Ryan's stories can carry the show, and I found this week to be problematic in several areas. I was really afraid the show would lose the viewers it gained over the previous weeks... and it seems they lost at least some of them. The show did gain strength the following week and I sure hope it goes up again... but it's always hard to keep folks coming back, and viewership dropped over the course of the week. Not good.

I do think Pratt has improved AMC, but the week we're discussing here was not the best week. I'm not surprised by the ratings drop.

[rhinohide]

I am glad that you're loving the shows you're loving. And you're right. That is all that matters at this point.

[marceline]

As much as I believe that one character can't save or ruin a show, I do believe that keeping Ryan on the frontburner is bad for the show right now. The sextet drove a lot of people away and I can easily see somebody tuning in. seeing Ryan and Greenlee chasing Annie and just saying "Oh well, more of the same...." Frons' mancrushes kill they're respective shows. Ryan, John McBain (I personally adore Michael Easton but I'd cut his screentime by 60% easily) and I don't watch GH but from posts it sounds like Sonny and Jason fight for the spot of most overexposed.

[rhinohide]

I adore ME too, but John McBain? Not so much, but his screentime, even now, is nowhere what it used to be. And you're right. I happened to tune into AMC one day, immediately saw Ryan talking to Zach about Annie, and screaming about Annie, and I thought, this is hardly new and different and immediately tuned into spike TV and watched CSI NY reruns.

[rhinohide]

I am in such a funny place right now with OLTL. I watch the show with an almost clinical detachment. And the strange part of it is, I am enjoying the overall show more, but I barely watch it. I can't explain what I am trying to say. I watch my recording and I find I ff most of the show, but what I do watch I like and often that includes characters I previously loathed or was merely apathetic about. I watch bits and pieces of all the stories, but I am not that engaged. On the positive side, I think when the current stories are further developed I will be more engaged. On the negative side, I could flip it off permanently today and not miss a beat. It wouldn't even have to be a decision, because I am watching so passively. It requires more effort and a conscious decision for me to take it off the dvr recording schedule than it does to just check the recording now and then and either watch or delete as I see fit.

I love that idea that CBS is doing! Tom Casielo put up a blog about how some primetime shows (and it appears CBS is catching on) are drawing in the fans and keeping them engaged. That's a great idea. I wish Frons cared enough about the fans to try and consider things like this. Instead he's eliminating fan events.

Link to Tom's blog. Very interesting insights.

link

[MarkH]

I have seen a number of other long-term fans describe EXACTLY this type of detachment.

As they explained it to me, it was defensive. In other words, having felt betrayed by their show on numerous occasions, they "hardened their hearts" (whether consciously or unconsciously).

It is literally a little like a lover that cheated on you. It is very hard to ever open up that trusting, emotional place again--at least for some people. This is not always/often a conscious choice. It happens after you feel in some way betrayed.

To continue the relationship analogy, there is no easy way to get past this, and unfortunately the burden is on you. In other words, you have to personally, actively do the work of saying "I'm going to get past this".

In real life, you CAN imagine people doing that for relationships. But it is hard to imagine that many people will put that level of emotional investment into rebuilding their relationship with their soap.

[rangethatrover]

You two are missing some good soap opera.

And I am NOT one of the Carlivati loyalists- hell I thought the show was generally garbage when everyone was raving about it last year-

But like someone said in this thread or another- OLTL seems to be making a concerted effort to infuse the show with some warmth and heart after this "interesting" last couple of months.

For me, the show has not held my attention like this in years.

And the acting has been off the charts and the writing has actually been outstanding, every bit as good as Y&R.

And I understand how the "rapemance" turned people off- I really do. But I found it compelling. I was apologizing all the time for enjoying OLTL and I am finished- I like the contemporary and hard hitting side of OLTL- they do it well. And I am enjoying the fallout and cannot wait to see what Marty does next.

And SOD named OLTL Best Show. That must really be rubbing alot of people the wrong way after this Todd/Marty storyline.

But do I expect this quality to last? Nope. With all of the micromanagement and focus groups that ABC is so fond of- who knows when the show will collapse again.

[rhinohide]

I think I am just beyond that Mark. I don't feel hurt or betrayed, and I honestly can't explain it. It's like a switch just flipped. And the funny part is, I am now watching the show the way I did years ago, at least during certain spells. I am not that interested in these particular stories, so I just half pay attention. But when something out of the ordinary happens, like John's scenes with Roxy, it captures my full attention. Those scenes were really good and seeing John interact with somebody unexpected one on one was entertaining to me, purely because it was so different and he was so different. Same with Dr. Joplin. That actress did a great job with that material, and it impacts a story that I am marginally interested in because of how it impacts characters I do care about, so her scenes drew my interest, again in part because it was really out of the ordinary, and that elevates my interest in the story.

Nope! I am not. I am enjoying the parts I enjoy and ignoring the rest. LOL. It's like telling someone who is an only child that they miss having siblings. They don't, because they don't have any, so they don't know what that's like. And you can't tell me what's good soap. I am glad you're enjoying it, but much like you thought Carlivati was producing garbage before, I loved that part of his writing. I still think he's producing very good work, but I am not interested in these particular stories. In the years I've been watching soaps, it's not unusual that I've gone through extended periods of time where the focus of the stories was centered on characters or events that I just wasn't particularly interested in, but you just ride those out and wait for what comes next. I am not hating anything. Just not that engaged.

The rapemance didn't upset me in the least, in part because I just don't care about Marty (never have) and wouldn't care about her if Angelina Jolie, or Cate Blanchett were in the role. You shouldn't feel like you have to apologize. I get that too. I am a staunch feminist, and yet people act like if you "get it", why this is a good story, you're some kind of misogynist, or masochist, or you're just too dumb to understand why it's all so deplorable and inexcusable.

[UKBoi]

There's a reason why Y&R is increasing...good writing, good acting, use of vets and good production values. Other soaps need to look at this instead of constantly trying to reinvent the wheel with stupid gimmicks.

[rhinohide]

I agree that Y&R is really strong right now. But the increases are nominal, and I doubt they'll be getting back to 4.0 on a consistent basis ever again.

And in spite of the drop off for the ABC soaps vs. the previous week, I suspect tptb probably accomplished exactly what they intended. Typical promotion strategies anticipate a drop off following a promotion. I think OLTL in particular hoped to grab some new/former viewers with the Todd/Marty reveal. That was a well designed strategy to draw in new viewers who were merely attracted by the controversy and wanted to see what it was all about, as well as former viewers who are familiar with the history of the show who couldn't resist watching what they expected to be a train wreck. Last week OLTL got a 2.4 on Monday and I can't remember the last time they had a rating that high. So promotion strategy allows for those people who will tune in and then tune right back out. The hope is that a few of those get caught up and continue to watch, so the trend will level out at a slightly higher rate than before the promo. And it looks like that happened. Even though weekly ratings have usually been between a 1.9 and a 2.1 for a long time, it's bounced between, 1.7 (?) and 2.2 on a daily basis and it's been pretty volatile from day to day and week to week. So a rating of 2.1 following a big week in which you might normally anticipate a dip, and more importantly daily ratings that are consistent, instead of dipping between highs and lows, is really not a bad thing.

[LoyaltoAMC]

I've got to say that I'm LOVING Y&R at the moment. And I've traditionally been a "Nixon" rather than a "Bell." It's just some great old-fashioned, sweeping, campy, slow-moving, intergenerational, vet-centered storytelling that the other shows are terrified of doing. Sure there are gimmicks and stunts (that's just the nature of the game), but the writers are able to showcase them in a way that doesn't seem THAT obvious. I think the writers have masterfully adapted Bill Bell's storytelling techniques to the realities of modern-day viewing. I don't expect them to reach the 4.0 level again, but I can see them staying in the 3.6-3.8 range for the forseeable future. As I mentioned earlier, AMC is just not doing for me. Everything just seems so forced and contrived. I'm not in love with OLTL, as many people are here, and not becaue of the Todd/Marty stuff. I just don't find the show that compelling. Like AMC, it's all one gimmick and contrivance after another. GH is an unwatchable mess, probably the worst of the ABC shows.

[rangethatrover]

You know Rhino, I totally get what you are saying... I totally gave up on the show during John McBain's arrival, Evangeline,- I just did not "connect" with the stories, actors- it held NO interest for me... even all that Todd about to be executed stuff that people were raving about- Margaret (I love a good psycho- I thought she was an absolute joke) I absolutely did not feel anything for this show. In all honesty I found JFP's era totally watchable compared to the last 5-6 years.

So I feel ya.

I am just finding the show character driven, compelling, and well acted. Gimmicks? I am not seeing it on OLTL.

As far as Y&R- It is OUTSTANDING. I think it is getting a little too overated at this point as far as all the raves- but again, I felt that way about OLTL last year.. but Y&R is classic soap and Bill Bell would be damn happy.

Rest of ABC shows are a mess in my opinion. They are terrible to look at and Frons seems to write them.