I think the key to the Marty/Todd story will be the fallout when Marty regains her memory. She has in fact, been raped all over again. This time though, it was consensual under the law, but not under the morals that govern human behavior. I think that realization, that moment of clarity, will be the pay-off the storyline.

What makes you think Marty is going to regain her memory?

I know, Obviously she has to in order to make this story work. Right?

Sure. Obviously.

I can't remember a time in soap history when the obvious been so repeatedly and vagrantly obscured.

Edited October 30, 200817 yr by marceline

Sorry Rhinohide, that makes it worse for me, that fact that she DOES have amnesia, if she had her full mental capabilities and still wanted to have sex with him, I'd still be disgusted, but it would also be HER choice

I do understand that Zendall Fan, and I respect it. I just have a different perspective. I don't presume to have the right one.

I so have to marry this post

And I will have it's babies.

What is the time table on discomfort for a story? When the gang rape story played it was disturbing during the rape but those scenes were two or three episodes depending on how you count it. The prelude and the fall out were emotional and thrilling and angsty and action packed but the part of the story that made you want to vomit was relatively short in duration. By comparison how long has Todd been romancing Marty? How long before Marty's memory returns and she has her epiphany moment?

Todd should have been killed off when RH left the first time. Sure, we would have been denied some good moments and performances, but I think it would have been better for the show in the long run. Soaps just don't know when to quit with these over-the-top villains - they are disposable by their very nature. Todd hasn't been a credible human being in ages.

Pretty much.

Well since you brought them up...

The show has kept the character of Todd stuck in two places: TnB and the rape. The character wasn't allowed to move beyond that relationship or that event and they go hand in hand. I blame the fixation on the rape on nostalgia and a desperate desire on the part of TPTB to recapture past glory. But as for TnB...perhaps we wouldn't have people clamoring for Marty to shag her rapist if they hadn't been subjected 15 years of the same story over and over again. The show backed itself into a corner and now its pulling this insane mess in the attempt to shake things up.

I am astonished that you have found a bit of deeply partisan and serpentine logic to try and blame the Todd and Blair fans for this, but congratulations on your ingenuity and creativity. "Too much Todd and Blair = Todd sleeping with his rape victim. Only solution!" All right then. Truly, you have access to an elasticity of thought process that most of you can only grasp joylessly at. I of course disagree. If it's any consolation, I would never have blamed this on Tea.

Moving right along, though, what occurs to me and what has occurred to me since the start of this story is that RC's top priority seems to be Marty/Susan Haskell. We get no character's perspective in this affair as much as her own, and she has been allowed to show her innate strength of character even as Todd dupes her. Todd, for his part, remains mostly remote and opaque to us, in part due to the writing but also, I think, due to TSJ's unwillingness to show much personal vulnerability (which I believe has "trained" the show over the last several years to write Todd in this way). RC has also repeatedly indicated he wants to keep Marty's options open, and seems unwilling to tie her down to a pairing with John, who he never seems that invested in. I admire that the HW values Haskell and uses her so much, but there are about a billion ways to do that that do not involve her [!@#$%^&*] Todd. And, with such focus on Marty, other characters, including Todd, Starr, and yes the dreaded Blair, suffer thus far. Todd alone seems irretrievable as a character because of this.

I am astonished that you have found a bit of deeply partisan and serpentine logic to try and blame the Todd and Blair fans for this, but congratulations on your ingenuity and creativity. "Too much Todd and Blair = Todd sleeping with his rape victim. Only solution!" All right then. Truly, you have access to an elasticity of thought process that most of you can only grasp joylessly at. I of course disagree. If it's any consolation, I would never have blamed this on Tea.

I'm not blaming the Todd and Blair fans. I'm blaming TnB. Or more accurately the short-sightedness and lack of creativity that kept that couple on screen for years after it expired. You yourself once suggested that the "Tarty" enthusiasts were an offshoot of the "anybody but Blair" crowd. That they were in fact just disgruntled Tea and Van fans who were happy he wasn't with Blair. (So you kind of did blame it on Tea.)

I'm suggesting that this disgusting display is a perfect example of what happens when soaps and their characters and stories aren't allowed to grow and change organically. This is essentially a forced mutation.

Edited October 30, 200817 yr by marceline

I do think for some people, Todd with a German shepherd would constitute originality beyond Blair. And those people deserve to be called out for supporting rapesex.

The truth is I don't care if Todd is with Blair or someone else as long as it is done well, and I've rooted for the latter before. But the fact that there is a large part of the audience that continues to watch Todd/Blair and watch for them (or Todd and Tea) just like any other major couple on soaps indicates that your opinion is just that. I think if you ask offliners it is not about how the show and its characters have been ground up under the jackbooted heel of Todd and Blair. What you feel is not some incontrovertible truth. And really, I was hoping we could put aside this crap and deal with the atrocity at hand, which has everything to do with Todd's core characteristics and nothing to do with the other two women he has been with. This was not done because of exasperated writers throwing their hands up at Todd and Blair; RC seemed to have no problem writing for them. This was done because they got Susan Haskell back and wanted to play Freud, or maybe Camille Paglia or whoever, in the writers room.

Edited October 30, 200817 yr by Vee

I do think for some people, Todd with a German shepherd would constitute originality beyond Blair. And those people deserve to be called out for supporting rapesex.

What? I wish I knew what that was....

And really, I was hoping we could put aside this crap and deal with the atrocity at hand, which has everything to do with Todd's core characteristics and nothing to do with the other two women he has been with.

The atrocity at hand - as you very accurately put it - isn't taking place in a vacuum. It's the twisted result of factors that have been infecting all soaps: nostalgia, rampant misogyny in what is supposed to be a woman centered genre, a lack of creativity and clueless management. Those things have/had VERY much to do with "the other two women."

This story offends for a lot of reasons. I mentioned one of the reasons it bothers me. I stuck with this show and this character for a long time and through a lot of stuff. Now has erased all of Todd's progress, all of Marty's progress and now he plans to dump Tea, one of my favorite characters, back into the middle of this garbage. I think its worth examining how we got to a place where this filth became a viable, frontburner story.

I think its worth examining how we got to a place where this filth became a viable, frontburner story.

That is the question burning in my brain. I just keep asking myself on what planet did reasonably intelligent, supposedly sane, business people conclude that this was a good idea.

I always like reading your posts Rhinohide

What is the difference between Mary being so drunk her judgment is impaired and now being brain damaged with amnesia so her judgment or memory is impaired?

None that I can see, she's still impaired mentally in some way.

This is the true definition of shock and awe, or so TIIC though. Instead it's shock and offend. I'm sure there had to be ONE person in the meetings that said "this is not a good idea" but Ron and Co. went with this. And a show like OLTL that needs every viewer they have can't afford to drive off fans because TIIC decided that a rapist having sex with his rape victim is good TV.

I'm starting to think all of this was done just so Frons could get his rocks off. There's NO other explanation for OLTL and AMC(and GH by extension) doing storylines like that that they HAVE to know will drive away viewers

That is the question burning in my brain. I just keep asking myself on what planet did reasonably intelligent, supposedly sane, business people conclude that this was a good idea.

Here's what I think:

OLTL(or Frons or both) wanted a "go there" storyline. They probably thought that since fans complained about the shows not crossing the line or doing anything like that, they needed some big story that would get people talking. And you know what, they succeeded. They got people talking, and in fact, for awhile alot of people were fascinated by this story. And Daytime did need a "go there" story.

But the problem I think comes in when they are handling it the wrong way and having it go way too far. Because although I don't know how Ron or Valentini really think, although I somewhat know how Frons thinks, but people say they are three months ahead in writing. Now Ron alot of the time seems to plan his stories in advance, but around this time three months ago it was slowly getting to the point where more and more people started liking this story IIRC. My theory would be that this caused them to get cocky and have Marty/Todd go all the way.

What is idiotic to me is it seems like Carlavati is catering to a SMALL group of people who like rape victims being paired up with their rapist, yet is IGNORING, what seems to be the MAJORITY of people who think this storyline is bad.

I mean seriously catering to people who think Todd and Marty are so "hot" simply because the actors have chemistry ::gag:

I mean seriously catering to people who think Todd and Marty are so "hot" simply because the actors have chemistry ::gag:

I agree. There has to come to a point where chemistry has to be put aside when the end result is something so offensive and disrespectful to so many people.