Oh, what utter crap. You must be fuckin' joking, my dear. Did you bother to watch Hogan Sheffer's last run on a soap opera before Y&R? That show embodied the phrase "corporate interference." I really like Sheffer, I do, but thanks to Corday and NBC he didn't get a single decent, well-thought-out story done for a single favorite, which is more than I can say for Carlivati, who brought Viki out of cold storage. And Sheffer didn't do a thing about it.

I'm sorry to puncture your fantasies of Hogan Sheffer, Macho Top but I'm afraid his recent work does not back that up, especially not compared to RC, who out of the gate, no bullshit, no excuses, gave us story for the veterans and solid writing. Which sadly, Sheffer did not.

Please give me the directions to the hypermasculine Hemingway-esque dimension you have come from.

I thought MiaJ was completely just being silly... Is Hogan a macho top? *so confused*

I was responding, mockingly so, to the whole assertion by mia that you can tell by how they talk and how they look that Hogan takes no guff and does what he wants whereas RC is some weak sissy yes-man. Except Hogan couldn't greenlight his own story and get it played out in its entirety to save his life at NBC, and RC has.

Edited September 24, 200817 yr by Vee

The fact that ABC is holding on so nicely actually suggests to me that Frons is a force for good, relatively speaking, not evil. I wonder if his heavy new emphasis on promotion will goose the ratings at all?

I still don't like most of the man's decisions and frankly I want him replaced with someone like Behr. BUT. BUT.

Definetly agreed. Besides the Bell soaps, I really, sadly and surprisingly, see the ABC soaps outlisting not just obviously NBC but CBS as well. Frons seems liek someone who would and will fight for them if the networks start to question their worth--I don't see that with any fo the other execs.

I was responding, mockingly so, to the whole assertion by mia that you can tell by how they talk and how they look that Hogan takes no guff and does what he wants whereas RC is some weak sissy yes-man. Except Hogan couldn't greenlight his own story and get it played out in its entirety to save his life at NBC, and RC has.

RC prob couldn't on NBC under Corday either... Frankly. But yeah fair enough--I just thought youa nd Toups took a post I thought (maybe wrongly) was utterly tongue in cheeck as literal... Vee, though we don't seem to be agreeing much in this thread--we usually do when it comes to OLTL so I wasn't meanign to pick on you if it sounded that way.

Edited September 24, 200817 yr by EricMontreal22

It doesn't sound that way. Nobody picks on me. I just pick on everyone.

Also, it doesn't help that some of the actors on OLTL are either horrid or extremely lazy. That toppled with crappy scriptwriting and choppy direction makes for a bad combination.

AGreed here. I think the directors might need a shake up too--I really enjoyed Monday's ep despite some of the material (and the shower scene), and I wonder if directing vet Valentini directed it himself played a part--and this plays a part with how the acting comes off. But yeah--more often than not I think the scripts lately have let down the stories actually. For a while, for example--under B&E I felt like if anything AMC's scripts often elevated lacklustre material (with a few exceptions)--I know many will disagree

I must be the only person who thinks OLTL's scripts have improved mightily since RC took over. I think they're now some of the best around, until very recently, and even now they have at least several good scenes a day.

I see where you're coming from- I can't say the show is not being maintained- but it's not for the fans that were wrapped up in the last 10 years. The fans base wars are over, and much of the relationships established are over without a word.

I dont think Bill Bell and RC are in the same league.

I just need to clarify I was jokign when I compared him to Bell--I just meant that Bell likewise started off as a young, eager, lawyer with no soap history, when he got into the biz.

I must be the only person who thinks OLTL's scripts have improved mightily since RC took over. I think they're now some of the best around, until very recently, and even now they have at least several good scenes a day.

I prob FF'd thru half or more of Dena's era so that probably is true--I think there have been some very strong ones. but overall I dont' think the team is as good as it should be given Carlivati's talent and compared to many of the other soaps. One obvious example is how clumsily exposition ahs been done lately (and soap opera recap--you know, the class but hard to do well soap technique of giving new viewers enough backstory but making it sound like normal chitchat)

I just need to clarify I was jokign when I compared him to Bell--I just meant that Bell likewise started off as a young, eager, lawyer with no soap history, when he got into the biz.

Very funny.....young, eager, lawyer...Pretty soon RC's kids(doubt he has any) will be on the show front burner.

OLTL needs a Cricket!

OLTL needs a Cricket!

No show, ever, no matter what, needs a Cricket.

ever.

I have absolutely not given up on Ron Carlivati. Yes, the man lost a bit of spark (I could have said don't try a 1968 storyline on this show), but he still shows he gets it. OLTL hasn't had a writer like this in a long time.

And face it, you could have James Reilly as a replacement... or Stephen Black and Henry Stern... or Ellen Weston...

Patience. This show is still very good and it can be great again.

I think Bill Bell cared about the audience. RC doesn't. RC thinks he knows more than the audience.

Of course Bill Bell cared...in the sense that his livelihood also depending on caring.

But, actually, the strength of Bell's writing and regime is precisely that he "did not" care. By this I mean: He didn't release spoilers, he didn't monitor fan response, he didn't do focus groups, he didn't pay attention to focus groups...

He wrote from his gut and his mind. When a story wasn't working (based on his perspective or interest...not fan response), he switched it. But this was HIS call.

The audience knew, and I don't use this lightly, they were watching the show of an "auteur". They either accepted that vision, or they did not.

Soaps today are a lot like political campaigns...they keep modifying the message based on poll-testing. This causes enormous inconsistency and variability...and the fans/voters don't know what to believe in or what to expect.

Ironically, by paying LESS attention to the fans and more attention and commitment to an auteur's vision...the shows would be creatively strengthened.

Despite all the wailing and gnashing of teeth, RC has a clear vision. It includes camp, comedy, controversy, and homoeroticism. He also plays with a keen sense of show history. That is his vision. I think TPTB need to leave him alone...and let's see what happens over the long haul and with lots of promotion.

I haven't stopped watching. I'm not so thrilled with what I'm seeing everyday, but the current crop of stories is leading to some inevitably explosive payoffs: Marty remembering everything, Viki discovering the truth about Tess, Starr giving birth... this is all huge stuff. I remember when Hogan Sheffer on ATWT had a dry spell... anyone remember how things fell apart a little after Bryant died? It took him a few months but he got back on track.