GL/AMC: Kim Zimmer's comments about RPG and BE leaving

[MTSRocks]

I don't agree with every one one of Zimmer's Emmy winning, but her abrasive performances are nothing bad. I like subtle actors, but sometimes that brand of acting can be fun.

[rhinohide]

LOL! No you're not the only one. There's room for a difference of opinion and IMHO it seems powerful women who use the "iron fist in the velvet glove" approach are far more well received than those who simply exercise their power without a lot of soft peddling. Certainly there are also men who get blasted for being abrasive and lacking diplomacy when they wield their power (George Steinbrenner? Donald Trump?) but they seem more well accepted and even admired for it in some quarters. It is controversial regardless.

[Greg's GL]

Obviously, I haven't read every post you have ever made on this board nor have I seen other's responses. Personally, if you dislike or even "HATE" KZ, that's fine with me. It won't keep me up at night and I respect everyone's opinions. I was just asking WHY she - KZ in particular - seems to stir up those reactions in some people. That's it. There's no need to get bent outta shape about it.

[DeliaIrisFan]

Well yeah, I think Zimmer has put her foot in her mouth more than once, while Lucci really hasn't. But there's more to it than that, IMO.

Lucci/Erica Kane was an integral part of AMC from Day One. Agnes Nixon created the show with that in mind, and aside from vacations/leaves of absence for outside projects, AMC has never existed without this character/actress. Is she the greatest actress? Is Erica really the best character in daytime to be a household name and by which to judge all soaps? Would AMC be better or worse off without her? Those questions are almost beside the point, because there is no historical precedent of what an AMC without Lucci/Erica would look like. Also, the only other original cast member who lasted on the show long enough to become a veteran and who is still alive and well enough to appear on the show is Ray McDonnell/Dr. Joe, who is still a presence in Pine Valley. He may not be frontburner (was he ever, really?) but he hasn't been kicked to the curb. So, while AMC has certainly screwed up with other veteran actors, there is no seniority issue that invites comparisons to Lucci's status.

GL, on the other hand, had existed for almost 50 years, been watched by millions of viewers, won multiple awards before Zimmer/Reva arrived. It continued to exist - some would say thrive - for nearly five years without her after she left of her own volition. There were no doubt plenty of viewers who resented legacy characters like Mike and Hilary Bauer being jettisoned at the same time this character/actress took center stage. And I can certainly speak for myself as one viewer who thinks that anything Reva has done in the past ten-plus years pales in comparison to what Roger, Holly, Ed, Vanessa, Alexandra, Bridget, etc. were up to in the early '90s. Some of those cast members pre-dated KZ/Reva, and all of them were written off/sidelined within a year or two of her return.

So, while AMC viewers may long for the halcyon days when Brooke or Palmer or Jenny or Dixie or even the most recent Laura English (just kidding) were front and center, Erica was there before any of them and she co-existed with all of them in their day. Why would anyone resent her because they miss the way AMC used to be, when she was as much a part of it as any of those others were at the time they were part of the cast? On the other hand, it's not as big of a leap to associate Zimmer's dominance of GL with the neglect of other members of the company. I'm not saying I fully agree with making that link at this point, but I can understand it, and at times I have made that link in my own head, to some extent.

Actually, I am a much bigger fan of BE than KZ, but to be fair I didn't even read this as KZ questioning or criticizing BE at all. I think she's saying that BE is a different story, not because of how she handled the situation, but because she has a 20-year history with the show. I think KZ was genuinely expressing shock at how dispensable someone who has been with GL for almost as long as she has was treated as being. I do think she's using some selective memory, to say the least, by suggesting that this would not have happened in the '90s - Michael Zaslow was, of course, one of the few cast members who had as much history with the show at that point as KZ and BE now have, and the way he was treated was truly reprehensible. She has to know that they would likely do the same to her if she ever happened to have the same misfortune as MZ.

[rhinohide]

I am a huge BE fan as well. I don't have any idea what KZ meant, but your explanation is certainly plausible. I was just making my weak attempt at reading between the lines.

[Greg's GL]

DeliaIrisFan - Thanks for this very insightful perspective. You really make some very good arguments, and ones that I found myself nodding my head in agreement to. You definately shed some new light on this long-standing argument for me. And that's all I was looking for in my questions regarding KZ/Reva. Thanks again for sharing your opinion.

[DavidEvanSmith]

As far as her comment about not being certain as to why ABC would want to capitalize on something GL had, I took that as more of a slam against GL than anything else. Like, "Why should AMC need to emulate this shitty little bottom-of-the-ratings soap and steal one of the few decent couples we've had in the last ten years? Doesn't AMC have a lot more going for it?"

But that's just my take on it.

[dragonflies]

Thanks rhinohide

I understand where she's coming from on that aspect. I can see why any soap might want to capitalize on something like this, BUT when has anything like this ever been successful?

Mary Beth Evans and Stephen Nichols redux on GH flopped, as did NLG and LD(Lane Davies) and so on and so forth.

[rhinohide]

I completely agree. I can't think of one case where a successful "chemistry laden" pairing worked as well on different soap as it did on the original. Or for that matter, where it was even marginally successful now that I think of it. So that answers my question about how important chemistry really is. At least for me.

[All My Shadows]

What? Agnes focused too much of AMC on Erica? Whaaaa? Agnes created an large canvas of characters. The initial focus of AMC was not squarely on Erica, but on the classic two-family structure, the wealthy, society folk (Phoebe and company) and the upper middle class, decent folk (the Martins). Erica and Mona were important parts of the story as well, but every character was. The show didn't become Erica-centric, IMO, until later writers started believing that the only reason why people were watching the show was because of Erica. As SuLu's popularity rose, so did the character of Erica's, and that's why TPTB felt the need to put her front and center. For the first 15-20 years or so, Erica was never so dominant that other families were written out or replaced or what-not.

I agree that it's admirable of Lucci to keep her thoughts and opinions on stuff to herself, but at the same time, I can't even begin to tell you how many people badmouthed her because she never spoke out against certain things. Yes, the unabortion. People who professed themselves to be these life-long, devoted, do-or-die fans of Erica Kane were calling Susan a lazy bitch for not speaking out against the unabortion (not here at SON, mind you, but at less mature soap places online). They truly believed that if Susan had shot off at the mouth against the whole thing, it would have never happened.

Personally, I don't think that there's anything wrong with someone who has been on a show for a long time to speak out against what he or she doesn't like about it. Just because they're part of the company doesn't mean that they're suddenly stripped of their right to an opinion about the finished product. Slezak was no fan of Dena Higley and openly commented on that, and now OLTL has a writer who has a better grip on what the show is about and who/what the characters are (nevermind the fact that he's currently putting out [!@#$%^&*], but that's neither here nor there in this discussion lol). Jeanne Cooper is legendary for putting her thoughts out there and she's usually more..."outgoing"...about it than Zimmer is.

I respect Zimmer a lot for not being afraid of telling what she thinks, whether I agree with it or not. It's the same reason why I love Cooper. They realize that nothing will change if everybody keeps their mouths closed.

[All My Shadows]

I totally agree. She isn't feigning naivete or acting dumb. She's been around far too long for that...she doesn't understand why they're doing it because it's failed so many times in the past.

[R Sinclair]

Okay, I get it. You're just looking to argue with me over something that I never even said, so whatever.

Anyway...

Still, after reading the whole entire printed quote (GRANTED, THINGS COULD'VE BEEN EDITED OR TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT [and somehow, my saying that will go ignored or misread as well, but whatever. At least I said it.]), I'm still curious why she felt the need to mention that. To me, saying: "But the upside to all of it is, and I totally understand because I've done it, is that you are actors and you do want to play different roles, and the opportunity came up for the two of them," and then following it up with "I think it's odd that [All My Children] is trying to capitalize on something they had here at Guiding Light as a couple. I don't know why ABC would want to do that," still reads as a dig. Not toward Ehlers and Goldin, but towards ABC and AMC. Like, "I wish them well, but I don't know why AMC would want to act like they can copy off of something that we had here first."

Since that was the quote that was pulled in the opening post, THAT'S the quote I initially had a problem with. Even reading the whole thing in context, again, it still rubs me the wrong way. I say that because there isn't a doubt in my mind that if she'd finally had enough bad mouthing GL and actually decided to DO something about it and jump ship to another soap, and a couple months later Robert Newman decided to follow suit and wound up there with her, she would be just as giddy as BE and RPG are and wouldn't be questioning that new soap/network's motive behind capitalizing on their GL success.

[All My Shadows]

I definitely agree that she'd be happy and giddy and all excited as well, but I think it's a very different thing. If Zimmer were to leave GL, she wouldn't be leaving GL because of Robert Newman. They get along well and enjoy acting with each other. Anybody who left one show and ended up on another would love to have a friend making that transition with them. As far as questioning the motives behind making Josh/Reva leftovers, I don't think she'd be too worried about it either. I'm sure she'd think all sorts of things about it, but I doubt she'd say anything to the press.

[R Sinclair]

The reason I admire Lucci's ability to hold her tongue publicly is because, to me, it indicates she doesn't have an oversized ego. In any other job, you tell enough sordid tales out of school... OUT YOU GO! For instance, at my job, we all have things we love and we all have things to complain about when it comes to the management -- but we keep it in house. We don't shout it out to the masses. Actors are just like any other employee. They are hired to do a job. If there's something that's hindering from doing their job to the best of their ability, by all means, they should feel perfectly free and able to take it up with their employer. But to think that you're just SO big that you can speak against the people who are giving you a paycheck and still expect to get the paycheck you're complaining about getting PLUS an even bigger one at the end of your tirade -- that's bullshit. Sorry, but it is. Martha Byrne earned mega points with me during the whole drama surrounding her firing because she said something along the lines of how she didn't use storyline or the writing as a whole as a part of her contract negotiations. She said that she was an actor and her job was to act what she was given. She just wanted to get paid properly for doing her job and that's where the issue came in. And even SHE didn't go around shooting her mouth off until after there were so many conflicting rumors behind her leaving.

I said all that to say this: If you're that unhappy that you're willing to speak out publicly AGAINST the people giving you a paycheck, then leave! Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, is entitled to be a full time working actor in this industry -- no matter how WONDERFUL their work was splashing around in a fountain screaming about being a slut 25 years ago may have been.

We saw the treatment Genie Francis got after she reached middle age and had a couple of children. ABC basically said, "Oh, you're not happy with what we're giving you? Fine... Bye! We'll recast you with younger, skinnier Brittany Powell."

[Cat]

Logically, I think you are right. Hugely popular actors can hold a show hostage.

But emotionally... it was these larger-than-life divas that atracted me to soaps in the first place. They were the Bette Davis, Ava Gardners and Elizabeth Taylors of the genre. Like the old studio system. Daytime should take a page out of the UK's book and balance the canvas out more effectively. But I hope the Revas, Stephanies, Ericas and the like stay on.