Second, I thought the triarchy of early stories (Nikki shot, then Victor smelling lavender, and then John getting confused) played out perfectly.

Her pacing problems began WAY before that.

And perfectly?

Not a chance.

Nikki being SHOT was all. about. VICTOR.

Victor's epilepsy was. all. about. JACK.

John's stroke was. all. about. GLORIA.

but I maintain that DAY ONE was genius

Then you would maintain wrong.

Edited August 5, 200817 yr by DeeeDee

I'm not sure I totally agree that the pacing was horrible from DAY ONE.

First, I liked the speeded pace, and even the end of the flower shots. Later, the nostalgic me missed these things...but it was a welcome new energy to the canvas at first.

Second, I thought the triarchy of early stories (Nikki shot, then Victor smelling lavender, and then John getting confused) played out perfectly. I assumed the story would be Nikki's renewed back pain, and a return to addiction. Nope. (That healed too fast). Then, I assumed that John was going to return to his dementia/stroke story. (He was, sort of, but that really was just a ploy to bring a neurologist on camera, to talk to Jack). The REAL story was Victor's little bump on the head leading to his DELIGHTFUL character transformation.

That played out over several weeks before it became clear what was happening, and I loved every blessed second of it. Every millisecond.

Then, of course, it petered out and went awry. But when Victor and Nick started building shelves together...when puppydog Victor wanted Nikki to travel with him...when Nikki was the career-focused ROCK in that family...those were stellar moments. I even liked what it did to Jack...his villainy ramped up, and I enjoyed throwing slippers at him on the screen.

I also liked John's dementia, because it set up the will-dictation plot, which I think was terrific! It further solidified Jack as a force to be reckoned with.

These things played out over the Summer and Fall of 2006 (right?)...and I thought they were awesome and appropriately paced.

I also liked the introduction of Brad's story. Over several weeks, we saw flashes of old newspapers. He had been a cipher for decades...our only clues to his past before Lisa Mansfield was one furtive meeting with a middle aged woman (his mother?) in a diner in the early 80s. I loved that this was all filled in...again, it stretched out over weeks.

It also included TiVo moments...where you had to freeze the screen to read the newspaper articles. That was a lot like one of my favorite primetime shows (Lost), and I enjoyed it.

Then, again, it petered out and went awry (Reliquary)...but I maintain that DAY ONE was genius. It was just DAY NINETY that started to get f*cked up .

I think LML was helped GREATLY by having Jack Smith and the long-standing Y&R team at her beck and call. When she took over the EP role and started cutting them loose, the show lost its bearings almost overnight. What is the point of establishing potentially good SLs if you won't follow through on them?

Smith laid the seeds of Brad's secret past when Nikki started looking into Bobby Marsino's past and her own childhood tragedy. LML contributed a one-day exposition where Brad broke the news on the airplane about his double identity. Then we had Brad's Super Thighs of Thunder.

The only thing I will give LML is her revitalising the character of Sharon. And improving the dialogue.

I must admit that every time I heard "Lynn" and "good" in the same sentence I become nauseous.

Doggone it..double post?

The beginning may have been good, but almost every story wrapped up fast, jumped to the next one, then either was forgotten for more than a month or was yet again wrapped up too fast. She kept jumping from a plot to a plot... The only time she was so-so okay was when Kay Alden and John Smith were still co-HW.

Co-sign, totally.

Edited August 5, 200817 yr by MarkH

Doggone it..double post?

Tee hee.... "Doggone it." I haven't heard that in forever!

P.S.: I don't see any double-post.

P.S.: I don't see any double-post.

It was on the sixth page a few minutes before, but now it disappeared. Must be some bug.

Nikki being SHOT was all. about. VICTOR.

Victor's epilepsy was. all. about. JACK.

John's stroke was. all. about. GLORIA.

I can't defend the broad oevre of LML. In the end, it was a disaster, I admit that.

I like that those three things you list above were as you describe. It was "red herring"....we focused on one thing, and then were SURPRISED that the story went somewhere else. If Nikki's shooting had been about Nikki, that would have been...pedestrian. That the REAL story beat was "new Victor" was a surprise, and that delighted me.

We have no argument that her pacing was off, her story finishes were off, her respect for history and character were off, that her understanding of the Y&R brand was off.

I just think in the beginning, during the period dmarex notes she was tethered by legacy creative staff, was fresh and different and exciting to me. Sadly, even I grew disenchanted...around January 2007...when Pheila was around and Nikki and Jack were running for state SENATE.

Yeah, the senate race was just...... ugh. It was like Nikki's twin took over for awhile. So many character changes...

I think LML was helped GREATLY by having Jack Smith and the long-standing Y&R team at her beck and call. When she took over the EP role and started cutting them loose, the show lost its bearings almost overnight. What is the point of establishing potentially good SLs if you won't follow through on them?

Agreed. I was so disappointed when Smith, then Alden, then Scott left. Not to mention Saitta and Foster and Houghton and Jones and... You get the idea. From the day Smith left, my worries began to grow. By the time Scott left, I knew all was lost.

I'm just saying that in the Spring/Summer of 2006, I was filled with hope. I liked what I was seeing.

Smith laid the seeds of Brad's secret past when Nikki started looking into Bobby Marsino's past and her own childhood tragedy. LML contributed a one-day exposition where Brad broke the news on the airplane about his double identity. Then we had Brad's Super Thighs of Thunder.

Help me remember that. I do vaguely recall that the investigation led to Brad being from Cleveland...there being papers that were never looked at...is that what you're talking about? That is fuzzy to me. I remember wishing Brad and Bobby would be connected, but they never were.

I miss Bobby. I think he's in witness protection. In that vein, he could be tied to the current story if they wanted.

As for "Thighs of Thunder", given your affection for B&B's Brandon Beemer, I would assume you enjoyed Diamont's thighs too?

The only thing I will give LML is her revitalising the character of Sharon. And improving the dialogue.

I give her credit for those things, and I give her credit for her "launch" phase. That's it, for me. I was not so internet active during this early period, so I was able to enjoy it without so much fan negativity impinging on my enjoyment .

It was "red herring"....we focused on one thing, and then were SURPRISED that the story went somewhere else. If Nikki's shooting had been about Nikki, that would have been...pedestrian. That the REAL story beat was "new Victor" was a surprise, and that delighted me.

Those things weren't "red herrings".

They were plot driven stunts that caused major changes for core cast members that weren't. even. about. them.

I just think in the beginning, during the period dmarex notes she was tethered by legacy creative staff

Her reign of terror began WAY before that.

I liked LML's Y&R for quite awhile, but then things went back. I liked that she picked up the pace and improve the dialogue. Working with Smith and I think Alden at first, LML's Y&R rocked, but then it things went off the rails. I always thought that she just needed a strong experienced soap person to reign her back in, but she fired everyone who could do just that so she dug her own grave.

I'm not ready to rally around MAB and HS. MAB squandered months when she first started Y&R. Victor and Sabrina on location pursuing a modern art museum. WTF?! Ridiculous. I want want to that Y&R is turning a corner, but I've seen Hogan in action on ATWT. He starts off well and then verves off course badly. I'll settle for Jack regaining his prominent role on Y&R. Soaps do better when their best actors are featured over the mediocre ones.

Help me remember that. I do vaguely recall that the investigation led to Brad being from Cleveland...there being papers that were never looked at...is that what you're talking about? That is fuzzy to me. I remember wishing Brad and Bobby would be connected, but they never were.

Yes. There was this mystery with Nikki's childhood -- a little boy that might have been killed. Then, Y&R pulled a bait-and-switch one day and had Nikki confronting Brad over whether he was "Joshua." It looked like he might be... but then Bobby was revealed to be Joshua.

I miss Bobby. I think he's in witness protection. In that vein, he could be tied to the current story if they wanted.

I miss him, too. Bobby had spark. I hated when he was paired with Strippany, though. He and Nikki had acres of chemistry.

As for "Thighs of Thunder", given your affection for B&B's Brandon Beemer, I would assume you enjoyed Diamont's thighs too?

ICK, no! I actually meant to write "Thighs of Death." Diamont's thighs (and the rest of him) do nothing for me. Beemer's thighs, I haven't seen, unfortunately, but I do like the way he wears a tightly-cut dress shirt.

I give her credit for those things, and I give her credit for her "launch" phase. That's it, for me. I was not so internet active during this early period, so I was able to enjoy it without so much fan negativity impinging on my enjoyment .

I wasn't really posting about Y&R so much either. I do remember the whiplash-fast pace leaving me unsettled, though. And when I checked out the Y&R threads, it was awash with praise so I felt a bit funny about posting what was initially just a niggling feeling of unease.

Her reign of terror began WAY before that.

When would you say she started to terrorize the soap? The minute she joined the soap? I'm curious.

Before Michael & Lauren's wedding

Before Michael & Lauren's wedding

Wow. That's a loooooong time. But just around the time Lynnie started consulting. Gotcha.