B&B: MSN August Spoilers

[JackPeyton]

What was B&B's reason before Kay came along?

Oh, thats right.. Brad Bell. He is one step above Ken Corday, and even just giving him one step i feel like im giving that man too much. He is the overall problem.

[nicknack]

Brad Bell has been with the show for over 10 years, so what is people's explanations for the time (post daddy Bell) that were actually good?

[JackPeyton]

Im not saying hes 100% awful. He isnt. He is good. His problem is he lacks the motivation and cant follow through on long term storys. He ruins his own show. And IMHO, there is far more bad than good and has been for at least 10 years on B&B.

[nicknack]

Well, I appreciate the consistency he brings (starting with the loyalty to SF, JMC, RM and KKL). Sure he has his flaws, but it's much more preferable than having a new HW every six months with the new one always dropping or rewriting the stories of their precedecessor and immediately moving to bring on their own pets.

Baby Bell has always had his flaws and his pets too, but at least they usually were fairly predictable.

I'm much more ready to ascribe a lot of the recent in my mind very poor changes (having too many characters on canvas, having more storylines than the show supports, the focus on Katie who isn't Bell's type of heroine at all, the constant medical dramas) to KA simply because they are very atypical of B&B.

Are gross storylines like Ridget and Brooke/Deacon a problem? Definitely. But even those times were more interesting to watch than the Katie Show.

As far as follow through with longterm storylines? I don't get it. That is supposed to be a problem how? For one B&B has always been a pretty speedy soap and since when doesn't he follow through with longterm storylines? Amber's baby lie, Brooke and Deacon's affair, the Nick/Brooke/Ridge triangle.

If I had to guess Bell's problem I would say that his real problem is that he loses interest in side stories rather quickly. Tests out characters and then drops them if they are boring to him while keeping his eye mostly on the main story he wants to tell. You can see the traces of him trying something and then dropping it all over the place on the show (introduce the Marones, bring diversity through Hector&Caitlin or whatshername the girl Thomas married or whathisname the guy Kristen married). It's rare that he really falls in love with something so deeply that he actually tries to tell that story (Amber for example). Personally, I find it a lot more honest to just write the characters off if he doesn't have any storyline ideas or inspiration for them.

[JackPeyton]

consistency? I wasnt aware B&B had that... and as far as new HW's coming and going no B&B doesnt have that, but they sure do seem like it. They pickup and drop stories just as much as days. and brad always finds a new pet-of-the-moment to pimp out.

As far as long term storylines, the issue is he does most so fast you feel like you have whiplash. The ones he does draw out go sooooo long its gets stale and boring, even if started out good. In fact thats the issue overall with B&B. Every story starts off good, then... it just all falls apart and started to go 200 ways and then drags and drags and drags. Another huge issue is everything you listen in that last part, except i find it to be a huge issue. Some of us do not like brooke, ridge, eric, and stephanie. and even if you do most do not want to see them every single day.

Katie works for me, because she is differnt. How many brooke's does this show need? Because.. well lets use Brooke, Doinna, Macy, taylor, and Amber for example. All are pretty much the same char. They all are nasty skanky whores who play 'poor me, feel for me'. Ashley, Felicia, and Katie all are faves of mine because they, most of the time, dont play that game.

And just because your pets and flaws are fairly predictable doesnt make them ok. I also dont place all of the blame on Kay. Even if everything i hate about the show right now is all her doing, Brad not only has let it go on, but is letting it go on and gave her a promotion. He is at the top - he egts the blame because he deserves it.

And to be honest, aside from the swap of focus from Forrester to Logan nothing is much diff. Sure the fashion is gone - and it has been for years now. The dark gloom and doom medical stories one after another are too much - but thats what B&B does. They have no balance and have not in a long time. Its always too campy, too dark, too this, too that.

[nicknack]

To me asking for B&B not to be slutty and incestuous and messed up is just pointless. It's like complaining that Smallville doesn't have enough medical drama or that Grey's Anatomy doesn't have enough aliens or that Stargate Atlantis doesn't have enough deep moral reflection. B&B is good at what it is, the problem is that recently it has become bad at what it is. I say minimalize Katie, send Ashley back to Y&R and instead bring Amber back.

[JackPeyton]

I disagree. For every single female to be the so close to the exact same is pointless. Katie does work on B&B - the storylines do not. She did work great when she was the logan sister with morales, but stood by her sisters. The grl who bonded with Stephanie and didnt need a man to make her happy. The reason Katie is hated now, IMHO, is because the changed eveyrthing that made her her and are now trying to turn into brooke like they always do.

Ashley was also great on B&B - she was everything Brooke was not. tThats what made that tirangle with ridge so good. He actiually had two diff woman. But it was dropped.

and Amber is a million times better on Y&R than B&B because she does bring a slutty trashy element to the show, but they ahve found a way to blance it all out, grow her up, and give her reasons for what she does side from 'because'

[Juliajms]

^^ I agree, especially about Amber and Katie. Sadly, I'm just tired of Katie now. They took a good thing and changed it and overexposed it. Katie should be with Thorne, not the latest in a long line of Nick's conquests. It sickens me.

[MarkH]

I agree with most of what you say, JP. I loved Katie when she was the morally strong one, working on PR at Forrester. B&B simply cannot abide strong women, and so we have this nonsense with both Taylor and Katie. This can be repaired though. But Katie also needs to be extricated from family incest (e.g., Nick and Bridget)...and that doesn't look like it is happening soon.

I also agree Ashley was great, but I preferred her with Rick (hated her with Ridge, but that is because I hate Ridge). Ashley is the one who woke up early, went for a run on the beach, and took the liberty of ordering breakfast for her boytoy. In other words, she was IN CONTROL. In that relationship, she could have been (kind of) like a female Victor Newman...in other words, the dominant ad mature one. I found that an immense turn-on, and I'm sorry we lost that Ashley.

TOTALLY agree with you about Amber on Y&R, where she is my favorite character.

B&B screws up every character.

My wish is for Ashley AND Rick to return to Y&R....I think Amber-Rick-Ashley could be a very interesting dynamic. For Katie, I'd like to see a return to strength. PERSONALLY, I wanted Katie to be the Forrester-PR person who had dealings with Restless Style and Jabot...so she could hop back and forth to Genoa City and deal with Nick and Victoria :-).

[Cat]

Absolutely agree with your assessment on Katie Before The Change. And on Ashley. Seeing Ash take control was like a dream come true. I loved Rick & Ashley, too, and from the sound of things, so did Kyle Lowder.

The inconsistency and Brad Bell's ADD is killing the show and has been for a long time. Of all the soaps out there, B&B has problems which seem to be the easiest to fix -- fundamentally it needs serious balance. Pacing. Rotating a glamourous and talented cast. Reincorporating the ensemble nature of that cast. And mixing the fashion with "love stuff."

And yet, the willingness at the top is not there. It makes me want to reach through the TV and pull an Ed Scott.

[MarkH]

LOL. I love every part of this post (including the implication that what Ed Scott is alleged to have done may NOT have been unmotivated).

Yes, Kyle was very disappointed to lose the Ashley story...as he should be.

Balance is part of Brad's need. The other is commitment. In other words, once you create a "Katie" with certain attributions, professional skills, etc...STICK WITH IT. That is how you get us to invest in and understand your characters. Anyone remember that Brooke is REALLY a chemist...just like Ashley??

I have few hopes for Kay Alden to fix things, I must admit.

[JackPeyton]

i dont think anyone thinks it was unmotivated - wrong sure, but not unmotivated

IMHO, prepare yourself for a letdown...

[Evan]

My views:

1. Katie is a complete bore! I don't think Heather Tom is even that good an actress, she certainly can't carry a long running SL, in the same way Susan Flannery and Katherine Kelly Lang have over the years.

2. Eileen Davidson has been sadly neglected and wasted! Bell should have either stuck with Ridge/Ashley, or kept Storm around, just when there was potential for him to have romantic sparks with Ash! ED might as well go back to Y&R or DAYS, Bell obviously doesn't want to write for her.

3. William DeVry SHOULD NEVER have been fired, a colossal mistake!

4. Another mistake: destroying Bricky! KKL and Jack Wagner had terrific chemistry, something he's never replicated with Hunter Tylo/Ashley Jones/Heather Tom. And Brooke/Ridge are just a joke these days!

5. Where is Susan Flannery? I hope Stephanie really has got a SL coming up soon, B&B needs the Queen back!

One thing Bell has got right lately:

Hiring Brandon Beemer!

[JackPeyton]

I disagree.

heather Tom is by far the second ebst actress on B&B - after Susan. She can carry a long term storyline. But no one can carry pure crap, and thats she has been given.

[Cat]

I disagree, JP. Shock!

Heather Tom has been ill-served by this horrid SL but, you know, she wanted it. She wanted more screen time and a Jack Wagner pairing and an Emmy reel. That's why she signed a long-term contract. Before that, Katie was a great supporting character with potential to move into leading. She was self-deprecating and bright and proudly non-glamazon. I loved her but B&B pushed her too quickly to leading status without allowing her to grow on the audience. She hadn't paid her dues. I don't mean in soaps as a whole -- she obviously notched up the years and the performances on Y&R -- but in the minds of B&B's viewers.

She and Bradley Bell pushed it because they thought she is the best young actress on the show. Raising the standard for all the other actors, perhaps? They were wrong. The fact is, Heather Tom is surrounded by great performers who, IMO, set the same high standard as she does.

In fact, Storm's memorial service was meant to be HT's big "show em how it's done" performance. I felt like it was forced. HT was working hard to wring out the tears. I like HT so I really wished for her to blow me away. But you know what really blew me away? Katherine Kelly Lang's episodes with Storm in the hospital. Ashley Jones totally devastated. William deVry realizing the only way out for him and Katie was death. I didn't have to try with those actors... I just felt. Similarly with Taylor's breakdown over baby Jack.

It's because the characters they play (WdV apart) have some history with me, a connection. Katie and Heather Tom don't, not yet. If they returned her to the snarky-but-sweet "ugly duckling" sis, then in time she would. But right now, the suffering saint stuff is not doing anything for me.