Y&R: Significant Decline in Black Viewers?

[MarkH]

Here goes:

When Lily-as-teen was first introduced, she was played by Cristel Khalil (sp?). And CK was CK. So, we had a pale young woman with what many here call "Valley" mannerisms. I'd say she came across as well educated, sophisticated, fashionable... It was clear that she was not so much like Dru, but I felt that was acceptable because ( a ) she was Paris-educated, and ( b ) she was Neil's daughter.

Neil, if we can ignore his "jazz phase" wherein he began dressing differently and occasionally altering his vernacular, is (as he constantly reminds us) a Stanford MBA. He has that Stanfordian elocution (he enunciates every syllable very deliberately), and the character is a non-spontaneous stuffed shirt. (Indeed, his rigidities were one of the preconditions for Dru's leaving him when Rowell left the show the first time).

I bought Lily, totally, as Neil's daughter after being raised as a pampered princess in Paris.

You'll recall how much Lily WHINED about leaving Paris in the beginning...and that also defined the character for me: An immature whiner.

Despite this, I grew to love the character due to ( a ) her believable friendship with Colleen and Sierra--right down to getting a nose ring; ( b ) her naivete leading to plausible bad choices (Kevin); and (c ) the romantic maturation of the character with Daniel.

I was very sad when CKLily left, in part because her chemistry with Graziadei was so nice. I remember how effective that "How Could this Happen To Me" (Simple Plan) promo with Daniel and Lily on the run was.

When Lily was reintroduced with Davetta Sherwood, I was happy. I had missed the character.

I found Sherwood jarring. In recasting, they had substantially re-imagined the character.

I tried to accept it as plausible. She had gone to a forced boarding school--run like a prison--so maybe she toughened up. But how would that explain that this once highly emotional girl would now be so flat and monotone? And what of her famous Neil-like elocution? How could she LOSE verbal ability?

In her defense, toward the end of her run, I thought Sherwood sparked *a little* with Graz...but it was NEVER like it was with CKLily.

But the bottom line is that, day in and day out, Sherwood had little emotional range. I think the poor actress was hindered by an edict that she should suppress her New York accent (she talked about this in the press). I think the constant criticism she received for that (much as Tammin Sursock has said she receives for her Aussie actress) put her off her game. She was thinking about the manner in which she was speaking, rather than the emotional truth of it.

In the end, Sherwood was too much of a re-invention of the character, and she had too many limitations as an actress (maybe because of those linguistic issues) to shine.

I would LOVE to see her on Y&R. Just not as Lily. I'd be thrilled if, tomorrow, they gave her a role of a New York girl newly arrived in Genoa City.

Now, that said, I cannot say I am overly impressed by Khalil since her return. I have not felt much emotional depth from her--even when her mother was dying and her marriage was breaking up. As many have noted, one of the reasons her relationship with Cane is floundering is because Khalil isn't doing a good job of playing the mature adult passion.

Still, Khalil is true to how this character was initially conceived (pampered Parisian princess), and so I feel much more that she taps into the truth of how this character was imagined. I think the point is that Dru had a daughter with more "inner Neil" than "inner Dru". (I realize that because she was not raised with Neil, and does not directly carry his paternal genes this is a stretch...but that is how she was written from the beginning).

[DeeeDee]

:lol: @Davetta being a "re-invention of the character" & being a "limited" actress especially compared to Christel.

Welcoming a "limited, flat, monotone" actress back to the show?

Will wonders never cease?!

Cause all Pampered Parisian Princesses speak with Valley Girl accents.

Whether or not Lily was raised by Neil or Dru she wouldn't be an aloof, abrasive, vapid, Valley Girl.

Gotta love Tragic Quadroons with incessant fetishes for White Men!

It's Imitation Of Life all over again!

[MoTheGreat]

What TIIC said was Dru was having a hard time with Lily because she was hanging around tough kids & she was being a hellraiser. What kind of tough kids & what hell was CKLily raising. True to form is how Davetta played Lily. & how most people imagine. when they hire CK they change the background to princess whiney Lily. then when they hired Davetta they wrote Lily back the way they said she was in the beginning hellraiser & Dru was having a hard time with her. Look at when Dru try to drag Davetta out Brad place then look at princess whiney CKLily being drag out of the old Phylis & Daniel place.

[Queen]

Well, technically, Lily isn't Neil's daughter, she's Malcolm's. And when I think of the daughter of Malcolm Winters and Drucilla Barber, I do not see CK's Lily. But I digress. I liked CK during her first run because I think she's a talented young actress. I supported her two Emmy nominations. Her second run is what's troubling me. She's just there. She brings nothing to Lily and the character suffers because of that. Although I could say it's the writing as well.

[MTSRocks]

^^^Now, that I can agree with. I don't think she's a bad actress, but there is nothing compelling about Lily Winters at the moment.

[DeeeDee]

Christel's acting is no different now than it was then.

[Queen]

I disagree. Khalili seems to be a very material driven actress. During the whole Kevin storyline then onto Daniel on the run and to the Paternity reveal, I thought Khalil did the best she could. In terms of story, she can act it out but she suffers from an extreme lack of personality. So when the writing isn't there for Lily, she's really a mess. That's troublesome because she's playing the daughter of a character that I absolutely adore and love. When I think of Drucilla, I think Force of Nature but then I think of Victoria Rowell as a force as well. Sometimes it's the actor more than the character because we all know how well Kent Masters King went over in the same role. I'm just trying to give CK the benefit of the doubt. I don't like her in the role either and would like nothing better than to see Davetta back or the role recast but it's probably not going to happen for a looonnng time.

[DeeeDee]

There is no there there.

[crc]

Bwahaha!!! This thread is reminding me of the infamous DS/CK thread when they brought the Whine girl back. Without dredging back up the drama, I'll just say that what came to light during that mess was just another reason I don't like CK.

For me, as far as the Lily debate goes, Davetta's Lily actually had a personality, flavor, whatever you want to call it, Khalil's ... don't. Davetta had better chemistry with Victoria Rowell (no scratch that, she HAD chemistry with VR, CK not so much) and the dynamic between Dru/Lily was what I FLOVED. I didn't care a lick about Lily until Davetta came into the role. And Davetta and Michael were super cute and had these cute little things they would do like a real couple.

[MoTheGreat]

CKLily leaves a lot of unanswered questions. Was she really that bad in Paris or that was an excuse for Dru to come back to GC to stop Niel from falling in love with that Serena character.

Was CKLily just boy hungry in Paris just like she's in GC?

Was she hanging around Paris Hilton type of paris people which still leave us was she just boy hungry.

When CKLily plays Lily I feel like she don't know herself. When I have questions I can't enjoy a character. then I tune out the whole show or the character but I decided to tune out the whole show.

When Davetta played Lily she knew who she was & what she wanted to do.

[EttaKit]

And the Desperate Parade Of Pseudonyms To Support Asinine Arguments Begins!

Well I'm just a new user putting in my 2 cents like everyone else.

Davetta's Lily actually had a personality, flavor, whatever you want to call it

As soon as DSLily referred to Daniel as baby I was done. For me she was just as another bad Y&R recast and I couldn't wait for her reign of flavor to end. I would have liked her as a new character like maybe Neil's resentful, bada$$ daughter (ever since they revealed Neil wasn't Lily's dad I've wanted him to have a SL with an abandoned daughter). Instead he has Eva to deal with.

[rhythmchyc]

<off to watch youtube clips of Davetta>

I just don't understand why DeeDee has to be so condescending...

[crc]

LOL! Well, as soon as I heard that Valley Girl whine return, I was done. Literally! I stopped watching not too long after she returned, but mostly because I was sick of LML's Y&R and the Sheila fiasco was the last straw for me. I tuned back in only to watch Vicky Rowell's farewell and Olivia's brief return. And LAWD CK gave the most cringeworthy shriek and performance when Dru went over that lame excuse of a CGI cliff that must had Bill Bell turning in his grave. The one good thing out of that was that Dru went out in (fashion-wise) style, looking FABULOUS! LOL!

[MTSRocks]

I agree that the "baby, baby" every two seconds dialogue was jarring at times.

LoL, I happened to like her initial shriek when she saw her mother go over the cliff. That was off to a good start. The rest was nothing special. And of course, they had to take the focus off Lily's pain and turn it into the nonsensical porn storyline with Amber. I don't get it because before Devetta, I thoroughly enjoyed the dynamic between Lily/Dru/Neil, and then that was all shot to hell on her second go round. TPTB tried to make her into a leading actress far too soon, with sub-par writing.

On a completely unrelated note, love for Badu! I'm still digging New Amerykah.

[Queen]

I liked the "Baby, Baby" affectionate name calling. It wasn't just Davetta. Michael got in on it too. The whole dynamic between Michael and Davetta was different between Michael and CK. I think if Davetta would've been in the porn storyline, they wouldn't have gotten divorced because she would have watched some porn with him(NOT Amber's) and then they would've made their own.