I remember when Shelia/Kimberlin Brown came back to B&B in 01 or 02, and they had to keep her hidden from everybody on set so nobody would know she was there. Seems extreme just to keep a secret.

I think they did something similar when Hunter Tylo came back in 05.

The ratings were higher years ago because the shows were a lot better than they are now and alot of the shows were either doing new things or old things in a new way. Nowadays, every show is just throwing every ultra-cliched plot point in the book on the screen for shock value to see if anything will stick with audiences. Almost nothing has for any show in years and since there is always so much needless shock, nobody takes most of these developments seriously anyway, so the notion that people will just be dying to tune in tomorrow if there suddenly wer no previews is kind of silly IMO. Same thing with spoilers.

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Kay Alden touched on this in her MIT talk. She basically said too much stuff was happening. I think like drug use, you keep ramping it up to get the same effect, and eventually blow your brains to smithereens. Kay was clearly talking about more character based plotting, quieter, so that the "cliffhangers" can be more emotional, and truly touching.

Previews and spoilers definitely help me decide which days I'll watch and which days I won't even bother with. If they do away with previews completely and eventually spoilers, it'll kill what little is left of this industry. Most people are simply not gonna be willing or able to watch 5 episodes a week, every week to make sure they don't miss anything. They'll give their shows up rather than sit through 80% garbage they don't care about just to see 20% they do when they have alot of other things to do and with so many of the shows sucking, it'll be easy for most to walk away.

What you say, though, suggests to me that these previews are soap-killers. For the model to work, they need to get you to tune in every day, or nearly. And for that to work, you have to WONDER what will happen tomorrow. "Will it be worth my time?". Not having previews (or published spoilers) increases suspense.

But I also agree with you. America no longer has tolerance and patience for ANYTHING that requires daily commitment. If most soap viewers are like you---unwilling to watch 80%--thinking the "buildup" episodes are crap...then soaps cannot survive.

If soaps refuse to give me previews I will simply watch soaps from the internet via clips. I know that if Days didn't have the preview showing EJ/Sami on Friday I most likely wouldn't have wanted to watch Days on Monday. More often then not the previews decided weither or not I watch live.

I really don't understand how a person can say that they wouldn't watch soaps if they didn't get the previews at the end of the episode.

If there is absolutely nothing to entice the veiwer to stay tuned why in the blue hell would anyone want to tune in? I don't need to take an hour of my time watching a show that holds no interest or consequence to me. The entire reason the previews work are because of the fact that they promote the show and they show the veiwer what lies ahead next show. With out said promotion one is just left to assume that the same stories will play out the next day. Especially when there is nothing to alert you when something new is going to happen and to watch that day for something interesting to happen. contemporary soaps aren't good television, they are more often then not lack luster and cutting previews isn't going to help at all. If anything it may hurt them more because the audience will not be aware of what is happening or what is going on the next day or if their is even going to be anything of interest for them next episode.

Edited June 28, 200817 yr by Skin

i always jusge if i watch the next day on previews.

i always jusge if i watch the next day on previews.

Oh JP, I need to continue respecting you . As creator of the "Jack Peyton axiom" (see other thread), how can you say this?? I want to believe you tune in no matter what!

America no longer has tolerance and patience for ANYTHING that requires daily commitment.

Once again, MarkH, I respectfully disagree with you (and I apologize, since we're covering this in another thread, too). If I could, I would amend that statement to say, "America no longer has tolerance and patience for anything bad that requires daily commitment." People want to be entertained, IMO; and they want to be entertained as often as possible. And no, previews (and spoilers) won't make any difference to them if the product is good. Conversely, a show can be the absolute pits, and no amount of "teasing" is going to persuade the audience to think differently.

If most soap viewers are like you---unwilling to watch 80%--thinking the "buildup" episodes are crap...then soaps cannot survive.

Exactly, lol.

Once again, MarkH, I respectfully disagree with you (and I apologize, since we're covering this in another thread, too). If I could, I would amend that statement to say, "America no longer has tolerance and patience for anything bad that requires daily commitment." People want to be entertained, IMO; and they want to be entertained as often as possible. And no, previews (and spoilers) won't make any difference to them if the product is good. Conversely, a show can be the absolute pits, and no amount of "teasing" is going to persuade the audience to think differently.

Well, how nicely put!! Respectful disagreement is the best kind! What a nice place this is! (One or two forget the "respect" part, but they're the ignorable minority).

What you describe is an empirical question.

I'd love to know, for other daily shows (including "The Daily Show", but also Oprah, Wheel of Fortune, etc.) two things:

a. How are their audiences faring? I think I read Oprah is bleeding out too...but maybe I rhymed that in my own head. I think daily viewership is down across the board. AND, if you could get a survey (these are surely being done, but I have no access to them), you'd find NONE of these shows are really watched 5 days a week any more. Of course, for Oprah and Wheel, it doesn't matter if you miss a show.

b. Of the residual audiences, are they aging? I'm willing to bet that as the audiences shrink, the LOYAL audiences are the oldest viewers. (Advertisers cringe again!).

Put that all together, and it says that "daily loyalty" is an old person's habit. I don't think that folks in their 20s and 30s are watching ANYTHING every day. I just don't believe it.

But I would LOVE to be proven wrong. I totally support your experiment...can we make it happen with quality?

(I'd say OLTL is the current test...and I have no optimism anything is going to improve ratings-wise or demographically for OLTL).

Well, how nicely put!! Respectful disagreement is the best kind! What a nice place this is! (One or two forget the "respect" part, but they're the ignorable minority).

What you describe is an empirical question.

I'd love to know, for other daily shows (including "The Daily Show", but also Oprah, Wheel of Fortune, etc.) two things:

a. How are their audiences faring? I think I read Oprah is bleeding out too...but maybe I rhymed that in my own head. I think daily viewership is down across the board. AND, if you could get a survey (these are surely being done, but I have no access to them), you'd find NONE of these shows are really watched 5 days a week any more. Of course, for Oprah and Wheel, it doesn't matter if you miss a show.

b. Of the residual audiences, are they aging? I'm willing to bet that as the audiences shrink, the LOYAL audiences are the oldest viewers. (Advertisers cringe again!).

Put that all together, and it says that "daily loyalty" is an old person's habit. I don't think that folks in their 20s and 30s are watching ANYTHING every day. I just don't believe it.

But I would LOVE to be proven wrong. I totally support your experiment...can we make it happen with quality?

(I'd say OLTL is the current test...and I have no optimism anything is going to improve ratings-wise or demographically for OLTL).

As far as Oprah, I wouldn't include her in any analysis as she turned people off with her foray into politics this year. Not doubt that does not account for all of her losses, but that did contribute.

Wheel is always trying to add something new, (the mini-wheel in the bonus round several years ago, all of those new categories, etc) but I don't think that really changes anything.

I think I read Oprah is bleeding out too...but maybe I rhymed that in my own head.

No, you're right: "Oprah" is down seventeen percent. Now, some of that decline might be due to cable and internet; I won't deny that these two have given network and syndicated television shows stiff competition. OTOH, where "Oprah" is concerned, I think it's just a matter of over-saturation. People, IOW, are just plain sick of Oprah, lol. There isn't a corner of this "media-sphere" that isn't "touched by Oprah," quite frankly. (I'd also argue, alot of folks aren't all that interested in watching her, sitting atop her couch, discussing celebrities' fabulous (read: boring) lives, but that's probably neither here nor there, lol.)

Put that all together, and it says that "daily loyalty" is an old person's habit. I don't think that folks in their 20s and 30s are watching ANYTHING every day. I just don't believe it.

But isn't that type of loyalty (meaning, "daily loyalty") kinda-sorta what we're looking for, lol? Let's put it this way: if I were Les Moonves, let's say, or even Babs Bloom, I would want the most "repeat customers" I could find, because they stand to be exposed the most to whatever products my network has to advertise in order to stay financially solvent. Fairweather viewers, who might be there, and who might not...? Well, that's just too dicey, lol.

(I'd say OLTL is the current test...and I have no optimism anything is going to improve ratings-wise or demographically for OLTL).

Oh, well, if OLTL is the "test," then we might as well call the experiment a failure. Two reasons, too, with one feeding the other: 1) Brian Frons, and 2) a lack of a serious promotional push (something along the lines of the old "Love in the Afternoon" campaign) for the show. What good is beating the drums for OLTL when right there, in the middle of Times Square, stands a billboard for a new nighttime show that has flopped already on Canadian television, but is being treated as the Second Coming of SoapNet?

Edited June 28, 200817 yr by Khan

Oh JP, I need to continue respecting you . As creator of the "Jack Peyton axiom" (see other thread), how can you say this?? I want to believe you tune in no matter what!

I dont. I actually like to watch all the soaps because i love this genre. and i honestly do have too much of a social life and like to sleep to much to watch 8 hours of soaps a day. So i watch the ones i find great everyday (right now days and oltl) and the ones i like most of the time (right now yr and atwt) and the rest here and there. but if im home watching live i always manage to watch the next time for every soap. but say i catch a soap or summen and the previews for tomorrow look good i will def dvr it and watch. without it ill just randomly watch.

im curious as too the Jack Peyton axiom

I think I read Oprah is bleeding out too...but maybe I rhymed that in my own head.

I posted about this in the Offtopic Lounge.

so the notion that people will just be dying to tune in tomorrow if there suddenly wer no previews is kind of silly IMO

I'm not talking about dying to tune in tomorrow because of what today's show has given us. I'm talking about tuning in tomorrow because you don't know what tomorrow is going to bring. You yourself said that when you saw a GL preview with Ava, Remy, and Grady, you decided not to tune in. What if you didn't see that preview? What if you had no clue who would be on the following day? Would you just not bother and decide to watch the show every now and then, or would you tune in to see who would be on? Naturally, if you tune in enough and your least favorite characters are on more than the ones you want to see, tuning out would be evident, but would it really make sense to just tune out because you're not going to know what's going to happen?

I've said this before, but I have older relatives who've been watching soaps for ten, twenty, thirty, forty, even fifty years. They're not Internet people or magazine readers in the least, so they watch everyday without knowing what's going to happen, who's going to leave, what characters are returning, etc. They still enjoy the shows as much as they did ages ago. Granted, a big part of that is because they don't take them nearly as seriously as some people do, but that's a completely different topic.

So did AMC cut theirs already? Today we got a Tessica promo from OLTL instead of AMC previews