I would gladly do it, however, Toups' weekly ratings archives go only this far into the past. So all you see up until Latham's co-HW stint started is when John F. Smith and Kay Alden were co-head writers.

Kay Alden was co-HW from 1997 to 1998 and then in 1999 she became the solo HW (until 2002, when these weekly ratings begin).

Okay, now that I have the data and the dates from you, I will do it.

Kay Alden was co-HW from 1997 to 1998 and then in 1999 she became the solo HW (until 2002, when these weekly ratings begin).

I think the data is slightly wrong. Bell's name disappeared from the credits by May 1998 or so. Not sure, would have to check my old tapes.

As I'm catching up with Y&R right now I don't see why everyone is bored or annoyed by Y&R. RIght now I'm stuck at the May 2nd episode. Jeff made himself home at the Chancellor mansion with some Jill-ish scenes involved; Esther went bowling (been a long time since she did LOL), Nikki and Paul have a friendly talk and Brad played David while playing poker. Add some classic music - and I'm pretty content. I een liked Phyllis & Nick's wedding anniversary celebrating. ANd I HATE this couple in general.

We'll see if the following episodes were really that bad. As I write this, I find the show pretty show. It only lacks a large story. Everything is so lowkey but still enjoyable drama.

Toups will be glad to correct his data. That's where I got these from.

I think the data is slightly wrong. Bell's name disappeared from the credits by May 1998 or so. Not sure, would have to check my old tapes.

As I'm catching up with Y&R right now I don't see why everyone is bored or annoyed by Y&R. RIght now I'm stuck at the May 2nd episode. Jeff made himself home at the Chancellor mansion with some Jill-ish scenes involved; Esther went bowling (been a long time since she did LOL), Nikki and Paul have a friendly talk and Brad played David while playing poker. Add some classic music - and I'm pretty content. I een liked Phyllis & Nick's wedding anniversary celebrating. ANd I HATE this couple in general.

We'll see if the following episodes were really that bad. As I write this, I find the show pretty show. It only lacks a large story. Everything is so lowkey but still enjoyable drama.

I think the lowkey is it. This is not the time to be lowkey. I agree...individual episodes really entertain me. But the overarching feel of the 'show' is what is the problem. The precipitous .5 drop in HH ratings is fueling my annoyance...low key is losing viewers.

Toups will be glad to correct his data. That's where I got these from.

I think these date ranges are wrong, but I'll send the spreadsheet to Sylph, who can get dates right. Anyway, with seasonal ratings, all you can do is suggest. The way the dates go here, the years mark the start of the season. So, 1998 really means the September 1998-September 1999 season.

I mean, I don't really think I see much here in terms of a particular writer's role. There is linear decline in every era, and the slope is the same from writing team to writing team.

The sole exception is that in the post-Bell era, the slope seems to have steepened, and then stayed steep. I should add that the very recent 3.5s are not yet sufficiently moving the season ratings down...so the current season is still reported as a 4.0. That's where Sylph's weeklies provide better and more current resolution at the end of the curve.

Sylph: What I was referring to was that in the 1990s, Rick's archive has NO data. And then, starting in 2002, Toup's ratings archive here has weeklies, not seasonals (right?). If that is correct, I was offering to put up seasonals to match Rick's up to 1999.

OK, I haven't read the previous few messages, so this is what I have so far (I somehow didn't manage to do it very precisely, but you'll see the possible errors):

When was Kay the lesbian exactly? The year, I mean.

When was Kay the lesbian exactly? The year, I mean.

This link says Joann was on in the "mid 70s"...if I had to guess, I'd say 1976 or 1977.

Now, this link says the actress was let go in 1978

Joann Curtis

Kay Heberle (1975-1978)

I think she was fired FOR the lesbian storyline. So I'm gonna guess it happened in late 1977 or early 1978. The squares with the HUGE dip you're showing in the 1977 season.

Edited May 17, 200817 yr by MarkH

This link says Joann was on in the "mid 70s"...if I had to guess, I'd say 1976 or 1977.

Now, this link says the actress was let go in 1978

Joann Curtis

Kay Heberle (1975-1978)

I think she was fired FOR the lesbian storyline. So I'm gonna guess it happened in late 1977 or early 1978. The squares with the HUGE dip you're showing in the 1977 season.

I ask to see the drop it caused. It's then the first drop in the charts.

Edited May 17, 200817 yr by Sylph

I ask to see the drop it caused. It's then the first drop in the charts.

I think you are correct. And it appears that ratings rebounded as soon as they abandoned the lesbian undertones.

This is why I still think Y&R/B&B will be the LAST soaps to ever add a gay storyline.

I wonder what caused that early 80s drop. I think this was when the show went to an hour. It is also when Jaime Lyn Bauer left.

I think you are correct. And it appears that ratings rebounded as soon as they abandoned the lesbian undertones.

This is why I still think Y&R/B&B will be the LAST soaps to ever add a gay storyline.

If ever...

I wonder what caused that early 80s drop. I think this was when the show went to an hour. It is also when Jaime Lyn Bauer left.

I have no idea about that second huge drop. However, I'm quite amazed at how these ratings were pretty constant under Bill (variating mostly between 7.5 and 8.5) when everybody else's were falling. Then after 1993 it was all downhill. It is also interesting how each of these new HW's slightly modified the slope, i.e. diminished it. But the trend remained the same.

Sara A. Bible's advice in her May 21, 2008 blog entry.

http://thebiz.fancast.com/2008/05/deep_soa...r_lives_or.html

There’s an old saying – the opposite of love isn’t hate. It’s indifference. In my opinion, it definitely applies to soap viewing. The on-line viewers have raged against such theoretically show killing stories as Reva’s cloning on Guiding Light, the reconning of Erica’s abortion into a long lost son on All My Children and the majority of Jim Reilly’s reign on Days of Our Lives. But, from a ratings standpoint, these stories were fine. Perhaps even successful. It seems that a show can withstand pissed of viewers who are ready to set up picket signs in front of the studio. What it cannot withstand is viewers who are bored. That seems to be the case with The Young & The Restless. Throughout Lynn Latham’s stint as the sole head writer and executive producer, fans were up in arms about the many changes she made to the show. (I’m not going to go into details, because as a former Y&R writer I can’t possibly be objective.) When she was let go, the fans rejoiced. Then the ratings plummeted. What happened?

Nothing. Absolutely nothing. I can’t figure out what the storylines are on this show. Jack, Phyllis, Nick and Sharon decided to start a magazine. And they did. Victor’s children disapprove of his engagement to a younger woman who talks incessantly about art, but they aren’t doing anything to stop it. Jeff has the goods on Gloria, but he’s not going to expose her for the back alley grifter she is. The show is the television equivalent of Muzac. There’s nothing really wrong with it, but it’s so dull that nobody would ever seek it out. I’m wishing with all my extremely biased Y&R loving heart that the show manages to turn things around ASAP. Let Gloria get busted, let the fallout take down her sons Michael and Kevin. Give Jabot back to the Abbotts. Let Jack win and Victor lose for once. Maybe Sabrina is on Jack’s payroll. It would explain a lot. Hell, do something completely ridiculous. Just do something. Please.

AMEN Sara, AMEN...Maybe SHE should have been HW. Girlfriend's got herself a few good ideas.

When was Kay the lesbian exactly? The year, I mean.

I am sorry to bump this thread, but Sara Bibel has provided a fascinating story about all this, by interviewing Kay Alden directly.

Here is what I said in my original quote to this, sent on the same day:

his link says Joann was on in the "mid 70s"...if I had to guess, I'd say 1976 or 1977.

Now, this link says the actress was let go in 1978

Joann Curtis

Kay Heberle (1975-1978)

I think she was fired FOR the lesbian storyline. So I'm gonna guess it happened in late 1977 or early 1978. The squares with the HUGE dip you're showing in the 1977 season.

Now, here is what Sara Bibel says today in her blog (please give her the hits and to read the full article, which is fascinating). (Patting myself on the back that I got the 1977 year right :-). )

The roots of daytime’s gay panic may have begun over thirty years ago when The Young & The Restless attempted a lesbian storyline – with disastrous results. I spoke with Kay Alden, Y&R’s former headwriter, who currently writes for The Bold & The Beautiful, about this chapter in daytime history.

It was 1977. There were only three television networks. <snip>

In daytime, The Young & The Restless was popular but not yet the number one show . . . The show made the bold decision to have Katherine Chancellor, lonely after the death of her beloved Phillip, start to develop romantic feelings for her friend and roommate Joanne Curtis. I assumed that the intent of the story, in addition to exploring Katherine’s emotional state, was to educate the audience. According to Alden, it was also about ratings. “The idea was to attract the avant garde viewers. Soap operas, at the time, had a very conservative Midwestern audience. I did a lot of research. Cosmopolitan magazine had a lot of articles about lesbianism at the time.” . . . “We didn’t tell the network in advance,” explained Alden. “Back then we didn’t have to get stories approved.”

As one of the youngest members of the writing staff, Alden spearheaded the story. “This was not an idea Bill Bell would have thought of on his own.” <snip>

According to Alden, the story was played very subtly. There was no overt dialogue or physicality. In fact, the show didn’t expect viewers to have an inkling of where the plot was headed. Instead, the moment Kay touched Joanne’s hand, “You could hear television sets clicking off all across America,” recalled Alden. “The audience knew exactly what was going on. It was one of the most remarkable experiences of my career. At no other time can I remember an instant ratings drop because of a single storyline.” The show quickly wrapped up the story, with Kay’s son Brock confronting her about her feelings and Joann leaving town.

Y&R had miscalculated. Instead of drawing in new viewers, the show had alienated many of the viewers it already had. Eventually, the show’s ratings rebounded. But it would be years before another soap would dare to tackle a gay storyline and decades before a gay character would be allowed to have a love interest.

So yet another Y&R flop is Kay Alden's idea? I'm not surprised...

^^^I wouldn't call Kay Alden's story a flop, as it was the bigotry of the audience which led to the decline in viewership.

^^^I wouldn't call Kay Alden's story a flop, as it was the bigotry of the audience which led to the decline in viewership.

Irrelevant the reasons, in the end the story destroyed Y&R since many viewers fled. Which makes it a flop, no matter how brilliantly written.