No the issue is not the same. Not by a mile. And by the way what does this mean: the basics of the two in the situation we are in are the same. ? The situation we are in? What are you talking about?

and your statement of "any minority" is quite frankly laughable. where are the people of color on soaps: chinese, japanese, filipino, taiwanese, singaporean, turkish, iranian, indonesian, malaysian, etc.? oh that's right, no where to be found. if anything, there should be a protest on the lack of RACIAL minorities on soaps. but you don't see any protest/boycott/letter writing campaign for that.

just like there was no rabid protest for korean blair being transformed into white, southern blair on oltl. that was extremely racist yet the audience did not even blink.

it means that if an African American couple were not allowed to kiss on screent he backlash would be going on. thats it. hell, if any couple was not allowed to kiss on screen because of race, gender, or anything i would hope for a backlash.

and ITA with what you said about more diverse races on soaps. it is needed, and thee should be an outcry for it. However, to say that LGBT people on soaps are not a minority as well as laughable. one is no more important than the other. all people of all races and all sexual orientations should be treat equal.

when blair was recasted back in the early/mid 90's it was a much diff time. the Internet was not like it is today.

No the issue is not the same. Not by a mile. And by the way what does this mean: the basics of the two in the situation we are in are the same. ? The situation we are in? What are you talking about?

As for racism on TV, it still occurs on a regular basis involving REAL people. for example 1. dog the bounty hunter and 2. don imus. both uttered extremely racist things, yet imus got paid a hefty settlement in millions, took a paid vacation and then got a new show for his platform of hatred. dog the bounty hunter got his own show back. imus and dog are actual, real people. luke/noah are not. so i think it's so annoying that everyone has to get behind these 2 and go on a crusade for them to kiss just because they're gay. political statement!

and your statement of "any minority" is quite frankly laughable. where are the people of color on soaps: chinese, japanese, filipino, taiwanese, singaporean, turkish, iranian, indonesian, malaysian, etc.? oh that's right, no where to be found. if anything, there should be a protest on the lack of RACIAL minorities on soaps. but you don't see any protest/boycott/letter writing campaign for that.

just like there was no rabid protest for korean blair being transformed into white, southern blair on oltl. that was extremely racist yet the audience did not even blink.

Hi, could you explain why it isn't the same for Nuke as it would be for say Angie/Jesse on AMC if they were denied intimate scenes because a segment of the diverse audience didn't want to see two black actors kiss onscreen and the producers factored that prejudice into their artistic decisions? Because that is exactly what is happening with Luke and Noah.

The people of color on soaps are on every soap. On OLTL you have Antonio, Crisitian, RJ (forgive me I don't watch that soap) and on DOOL you have Abe, Lexie, and on GH you have Dr Lee, Dr Winter, Nurses Epiphany and I forget the other one's name, Diego now. On AMC isn't Erica involved with a character played by Mario Van Peebles, and that doesn't count Angie, Jesse, Frankie, Julia Santos.

The notion that singaporeans (if such a distinction even exists) need equal representation before we champion the cause of Luke and Noah seems a little far fetched. I thought Singapore, Taiwan and Iran were countries not ethnicities, and following this argument to its logical conclusion we should all raise the maple leaf in defiance of discrimination against Canadians on US TV because no canucks live in Genoa City. And as we remember the lack of Taiwanese on soaps, perhaps we should remember the lack of Lebanese and Lithuanians and Portugese and Polish.

I just can't see any other motive except an embrace of prejudice for not writing the gay couple the same way they write the straight couples.

The people of color on soaps are on every soap. On OLTL you have Antonio, Crisitian, RJ (forgive me I don't watch that soap) and on DOOL you have Abe, Lexie, and on GH you have Dr Lee, Dr Winter, Nurses Epiphany and I forget the other one's name, Diego now. On AMC isn't Erica involved with a character played by Mario Van Peebles, and that doesn't count Angie, Jesse, Frankie, Julia Santos.

With the exception of the newly returned Angie and Jesse and Antonio and Cristian, every single person of color you have identified are nothing, but tokens and barely have a storyline or are there short term. They might as well not exist and to use them as an example of diversity is a joke. CBS has become the worse offenders. They just fired the only Asian male (Ji Min) on the soaps and the only Latina (Adrianne Leon) from Y&R as well as the only African American female (Elena Goode) on contract from ATWT.

Would there be outrage if Angie and Jesse couldn't kiss, of course, but that isn't the issue for African American characters. Interracial romances over the years have resulted in enormous amounts of hate mail from the same ignorant people who find Luke and Noah repulsive. Where exactly is the vocal support of the gay community and their supporters then or as the number of actors of colors have dwindled on the soaps over the last 20 years? I'll tell where, none existent. When you point at tokenism as progress for actors of color all it does is make people of color roll their eyes and turn away. We all need respect each other's issues and band together against a white male dominant establishment in Daytime that practices misogyny, racism and homophobia.

But my thing is, why aren't Nuke fans campaigning for better storylines for their couple? Eveything those two have been given have been nothing but subpar, contrived, and convaluted. It is really that important that they kiss when their storyline is written deploribly?

The heterosexual characters don't even get good stories. It's a waste of time to lobby for better plots as long as Passanante is head writer. The very least that ATWT can do is show us the bare minimum truth of human nature - people who cry when they're sad, yell when they're angry and kiss when they're in love. That doesn't require a prolonged demonstration of either behavior. It doesn't have to happen every day either. Somebody is lying their ass off, because there's no way that Nuke can miss out on kisses without someone making the conscious decision to deny them. They have the only prominent love story on the show without internal strife.

I was far more outraged with Elena Goode (Jade) was fired. She was the last main African American character on ATWT and no one seemed to blink an eye. I find the declining numbers of minority characters on CBS as a whole disturbing. I wrote a protest letter than and didn't see any outrage on the Internet which is really too bad because people who are marginalized due to their ethnicity, race, gender and sexuality should support each other's causes.

Jade was not African American. Her ethnicity wasn't really established, actually. Elena Goode is a Latina. If there was no protest when she left, it's probably because Passanante made her no more than an ornery misfit without other personality traits. For months before she left, her interaction with the Snyders was minimal at best. Personally I couldn't stand her from day one.

and ITA with what you said about more diverse races on soaps. it is needed, and thee should be an outcry for it. However, to say that LGBT people on soaps are not a minority as well as laughable. one is no more important than the other.

Exactly. What is this, a competition? If Ben and Jessica came back, what would they do besides prop the white characters like Bonnie and Dallas do right now? There's no need to advocate the type of progress TPTP are incapable of bringing forth. Heads have to roll behind the scenes first.

one is no more important than the other.

They are when other groups constantly piggyback on established groups progress to advance their own cause(s).

Edited March 3, 200817 yr by DeeeDee

Jade was not African American. Her ethnicity wasn't really established, actually. Elena Goode is a Latina. If there was no protest when she left, it's probably because Passanante made her no more than an ornery misfit without other personality traits. For months before she left, her interaction with the Snyders was minimal at best. Personally I couldn't stand her from day one.

This is exactly the attitude that I was talking about. It isn't important to you so whatever. So much for respecting each other's issues and banding together against "a white male dominant establishment in Daytime that practices misogyny, racism and homophobia." I'm adopting this attitude; Noah sucks, has no chemistry with Luke, has no personality and is played by someone who can't act for his life.

Edited March 3, 200817 yr by Ann_SS

This is exactly the attitude that I was talking about. It isn't important to you so whatever. So much for respecting each other's issues and banding together against "a white male dominant establishment in Daytime that practices misogyny, racism and homophobia."

The only disrespect you felt was that which you imagined. If I really disregarded your thoughts, I would have used fewer words than I did to explain my opposing views. This thread is not a free for all about inequities on soaps anyway. It has a clearly defined topic, like they all do.

Edited March 3, 200817 yr by stenbeck212

Personally I'm sick of hearing about this, kiss or no kiss, I honestly don't care. I'd much rather worry about what actors might next be fired or quit.....

Some people believe sexual orientation is a lifestyle choice. Some do not.

I believe it is not a choice because who would choose to be gay knowing all of the negative stereotypes, oppression, stigmas, bigotry, and violence against people of that orientation associated with it?

I'm adopting this attitude; Noah sucks, has no chemistry with Luke, has no personality and is played by someone who can't act for his life.

Best.Comment.Ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They are when other groups constantly piggyback on established groups progress to advance their own cause(s).

Which is exactly what the luke/noah supporters are doing. To hell with everyone else.

it means that if an African American couple were not allowed to kiss on screent he backlash would be going on. thats it. hell, if any couple was not allowed to kiss on screen because of race, gender, or anything i would hope for a backlash.

and ITA with what you said about more diverse races on soaps. it is needed, and thee should be an outcry for it. However, to say that LGBT people on soaps are not a minority as well as laughable. one is no more important than the other. all people of all races and all sexual orientations should be treat equal.

when blair was recasted back in the early/mid 90's it was a much diff time. the Internet was not like it is today.

And yet there was no backlash for the lack of minorities in daytime for eons. Yet we all have to get behind poor little luke/noah for not kissing because it's "homophobic". BARF!

these people leading this boycott/letter writing need to get lives. to protest 2 fictional characters for not kissing and calling it homophobic is pathetic to say the least.

b&b never has racial minorities yet it's set in LA of all places! the minority characters have never lasted on the soap. heck the original non-canadian tvguide.com reported that mykel shannon jenkins would be the first bonafide black male romantic lead on b&b. yet weeks later he's relegated to recurring status. where's the outcry of racism for that? he doesn't even have a relationship unlike luke/noah, so where's the racism boycott there? there's none, because the white gay male audience of cbs will merely dismiss that as "bad writing on brad bell's part" but not racism. while luke/noiah not kissin is automatically homophobic.

and so what if the internet is different now than in the 90s. there were soap fans who were just as rabid then. soap fans would picket outside studios or send letters to their soaps if they didn't like this actor getting the boot or this storyline developing. yet fans didn't care when oltl recasted korean blair into a white woman.

the point is: daytime has continued to be racist, yet there's no call to arms for that. so why should people mobilize for luke/noah? they shouldn't get any preferential treatment just because they're gay characters.

Hi, could you explain why it isn't the same for Nuke as it would be for say Angie/Jesse on AMC if they were denied intimate scenes because a segment of the diverse audience didn't want to see two black actors kiss onscreen and the producers factored that prejudice into their artistic decisions? Because that is exactly what is happening with Luke and Noah.

The people of color on soaps are on every soap. On OLTL you have Antonio, Crisitian, RJ (forgive me I don't watch that soap) and on DOOL you have Abe, Lexie, and on GH you have Dr Lee, Dr Winter, Nurses Epiphany and I forget the other one's name, Diego now. On AMC isn't Erica involved with a character played by Mario Van Peebles, and that doesn't count Angie, Jesse, Frankie, Julia Santos.

The notion that singaporeans (if such a distinction even exists) need equal representation before we champion the cause of Luke and Noah seems a little far fetched. I thought Singapore, Taiwan and Iran were countries not ethnicities, and following this argument to its logical conclusion we should all raise the maple leaf in defiance of discrimination against Canadians on US TV because no canucks live in Genoa City. And as we remember the lack of Taiwanese on soaps, perhaps we should remember the lack of Lebanese and Lithuanians and Portugese and Polish.

I just can't see any other motive except an embrace of prejudice for not writing the gay couple the same way they write the straight couples.

the people of color on soaps are on every soap?

you're joking right? daytime has been consistently racist, often relegating characters of color to the background. even the once diverse y&r lacks racial representation. the cancellation of diverse generations after only 2 years is proof of how racist daytime is! take very racist oltl for example. how racist is it that oltl recasted blair from korean to white. yet no one cared. there was no boycott. so why should luke/noah be given preferential treatment just because they don't kiss?

look at b&b. the soap is set in LA yet they have never consistently had minority characters not a single minority character lasted on b&b. keith was the first black male on b&b yet he never had a relationship (unlike pukey luke/noah). isn't that racist? where was the outcry for that? where are the asian characters on b&b. trish was eric's asian secretary. where's the outcry for her not getting a storyline, or a relationship? yet luke/noah, who got their frontburner storyline, have whiny fans complaining just because they're not kissing?

My point is: No you can't compare luke/noah not kissing with the prevalent racism in daytime. too much racism in daytime has been happening for years, so whatever perceived "discrimination" is being committed against luke/noah is a drop in the bucket compared to the racism that still occurs in daytime. and it's being selective and agenda-motivated to proclaim that luke/noah are being discriminated against, while not give a hoot about all the years that daytime's been racist.

again: where are the chinese, japanese, korean, filipino, malaysian, singaporean, indian, indian american, mexican, brazilian, iranian, lebanese, etc. characters on soaps? no one campaigns about that, yet noah/luke don't kiss and the vocal gays go bonkers!

Edited March 4, 200817 yr by bakedghoti

With the exception of the newly returned Angie and Jesse and Antonio and Cristian, every single person of color you have identified are nothing, but tokens and barely have a storyline or are there short term. They might as well not exist and to use them as an example of diversity is a joke. CBS has become the worse offenders. They just fired the only Asian male (Ji Min) on the soaps and the only Latina (Adrianne Leon) from Y&R as well as the only African American female (Elena Goode) on contract from ATWT.

Would there be outrage if Angie and Jesse couldn't kiss, of course, but that isn't the issue for African American characters. Interracial romances over the years have resulted in enormous amounts of hate mail from the same ignorant people who find Luke and Noah repulsive. Where exactly is the vocal support of the gay community and their supporters then or as the number of actors of colors have dwindled on the soaps over the last 20 years? I'll tell where, none existent. When you point at tokenism as progress for actors of color all it does is make people of color roll their eyes and turn away.

BRILLIANT COMMENTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I agree with everything I quoted from you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Would there be outrage if Angie and Jesse couldn't kiss, of course, but that isn't the issue for African American characters.

yet it is for gay characters. hints the outrage over them not kissing.