This is the Presidential Campaign Thread.

Barack Obama Vs. John McCain.

Edited November 6, 200817 yr by Toups

70% of African Americans voted yes to Prop 8. African Americans have the highest rates of single mothers and children without fathers. What would they know about marriage?

Is this a serious question or are you really implying that black people never get married? I have a spare shovel if you want to dig some more.

Is this a serious question or are you really implying that black people never get married? I have a spare shovel if you want to dig some more.

I find it hypocritical of blacks to deny civil rights of gays. And the statistics are there, black children are more likely to grow up in a single parent household than any other group.

Good.....in the spirit of getting along....I won't run off just yet then

I don't think they need to worry about bipartisanship for people who aren't in either party, I believe I heard him say that Obama wasn't a friend of the Jews and some other things in the name of helping McCain. The Democrats took issue with whatever he said at the Republican Convention about Obama so it's not that he supported McCain but what he said about Obama in support of McCain. I don't think he gets to be McCain's sidekick anymore since that was Lindsay Graham riding with McCain yesterday.

He's not an Independent because of philosophy but because of necessity.....in that he had to run as one to keep his seat. I think they need to look at whether he's effective in his position as opposed to whether or not he bad mouthed Obama and tried to make people think that Obama was a terrorist. If he does his job then I think they should leave him in the position. His mouth is a reflection on him since he's going to look stupid sucking up to all of them now. Since Michelle Bachman was re-elected they need to get her on the floor and make her tell them who is the unpatriotic House members are.

I had completely forgotten what possessed him to run as an independent. Thanks for refreshing my memory, Wales. IA that if he is effective, then why not keep him there. To do otherwise based on his criticisms of Obama during the campaign would not look good and would harm the entire "we are all in this together" attitude that the Dems are shooting for.

CM is still drinking his euphoria juice which will either get a little diluted depending on how he's feeling at the moment. He can't help showing a bias for whomever he's crushing on at the moment. I've seen him bark at Democrats and gush over Republicans in one segment of his show and then go ga ga over something radically different in the next. He was anti Hillary then he fell in love with her and he thinks there is something so brilliant about Sarah Palin even though he questioned her knowledge quite a bit.

I don't think he reports news. He just gushes over whatever he wants and gets cranky over whatever he wants. Sometimes he wants to lead his loose lips guests into the gallows and sometimes he wants to saturate other guests in flowery sayings. If Sarah Palin sat in the studio with him, he would spend the entire time in awe over her charisma and telling her what a raw deal she got.

Whenever I watch CM and "Hardball", I get the same impression. Granted, I don't watch him very regularly so I have no point of reference IRT Hillary and Palin. I do recall some discussion of him doing work for Dems at the beginning of his career, and do think that he trends to the left.

Is this a serious question or are you really implying that black people never get married? I have a spare shovel if you want to dig some more.

This should be interesting.

I find it hypocritical of blacks to deny civil rights of gays. And the statistics are there, black children are more likely to grow up in a single parent household than any other group.

Are there people who are both black and gay? I really am tired of people who act as if the two are mutually exclusive.

Your whole point about whether or not a black child grows up in a single parent household has nothing to do with Prop 8 since you seem to be implying that in order to have an opinion on Prop 8 you need to know something about marriage and that's not race specific. There are single people who are not black who voted for it and what issue would you have with married people who voted for it since they know about marriage?

I had completely forgotten what possessed him to run as an independent. Thanks for refreshing my memory, Wales. IA that if he is effective, then why not keep him there. To do otherwise based on his criticisms of Obama during the campaign would not look good and would harm the entire "we are all in this together" attitude that the Dems are shooting for.

I don't know if they are all on the same page in the harmony dept and I think Harry Reid is on a mission to get rid of Joe. If he does it, none of the other senators are going to go up against him over it since he's not worth the effort. I don't think he'd be seen as significant in the attempt to be bipartisan since he's not a Republican. Maybe that'll be his next move.

Whenever I watch CM and "Hardball", I get the same impression. Granted, I don't watch him very regularly so I have no point of reference IRT Hillary and Palin. I do recall some discussion of him doing work for Dems at the beginning of his career, and do think that he trends to the left.

I watch him in small chunks since it takes a few minutes for him to irritate me with the gushing.....and he asks the same stupid questions over and over again like they do on First and 10 and all those other shows where people sit around and analyze something to death.

This should be interesting.

Not really. Look, I could go down the line on the stats and they don't mean too much to me since the percentages don't give me any indication of how many people they equal. According to the stats, 81% of the white evangelicals voted in favor of Prop 8 but that must be different since they apparently know about marriage. It is probably time for me to run off perturbed or something.

GGL my parting gift:

http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/

Edited November 6, 200817 yr by Wales2004

I find it hypocritical of blacks to deny civil rights of gays.

I also find that a little ironic.

I find it hypocritical for anyone to deny anyone civil rights. Whether they're black, asian, caucasian, hispanic, rich, poor... whatever. We can't just lay this on one group of people and make it sound as if they're solely responsible for this.

I find it hypocritical for anyone to deny anyone civil rights. Whether they're black, asian, caucasian, hispanic, rich, poor... whatever. We can't just lay this on one group of people and make it sound as if they're solely responsible for this.

I agree. But I think it's even more hypocritical to be judgemental when you've been on the "bad" side of an issue.

I find it hypocritical for anyone to deny anyone civil rights. Whether they're black, asian, caucasian, hispanic, rich, poor... whatever. We can't just lay this on one group of people and make it sound as if they're solely responsible for this.

Kenny, again I agree with you 100%. Equal rights for every person. Period. It should not matter if you are Chinese, Jewish, fat, rich, bisexual, a Nazi, Latino, a woman, a transgender, A Haitian, a Evangelical, a man, poor, American Indian, a lesbian, or whatever the hell you want to be expect a felon. Equal rights. The election of Obama was a giant step forward in the correct direction. The passing of Prop 8 was a step back. No one group is responsible, every person has free will to make their own decisions. The most important thing is to keep taking steps forward so that everyone has the same rights. It's not about laying blame. Focus the energy on civil rights

Gay marriage is something that shouldn't even be voted on.

It's like allowing the public to vote on who has to sit at the back of the bus and who has to use separate bathrooms. Some things shouldn't even be a matter of debate. Some things shouldn't even have to be voted on. Some things should just be fair and equal... naturally... without having to let the prejudiced majority vote on minority issues.

I find it hypocritical of blacks to deny civil rights of gays. And the statistics are there, black children are more likely to grow up in a single parent household than any other group.

....Um, What?

Gay marriage is something that shouldn't even be voted on.

It's like allowing the public to vote on who has to sit at the back of the bus and who has to use separate bathrooms. Some things shouldn't even be a matter of debate. Some things shouldn't even have to be voted on. Some things should just be fair and equal... naturally... without having to let the prejudiced majority vote on minority issues.

I don't think it should be voted on either. I also think it violates the equal protection clause of the U.S. Constitution. It is a law the singles out a portion of society and denies it rights that every other member of society enjoys. The equal rights clause of the U.S. Constitution trumps any state law or constitutional provision. Of course, I doubt a majority of the current Supreme Court would see gay marriage that way.

Wales, I understand somewhat your comment that you know people who voted for and against the amendment and did not think it was bigotry. I think when you deny people equal rights for whatever reason, it's prejudice. It is saying that a class of people does not have the right to enjoy all the privileges that I enjoy. The moral argument doesn't work for me because I think morality, particularly when it inflects harm, is a pretty poor reason for amending a Constitution. Constitutions are intended to ensure individuals protections from government, not give governments a way to harm individuals.

I think maybe gays and lesbians could learn from the civil rights movement. I don't know, but I do think as a group, gays and lesbians re subjected to discrimination. In many states, if you are not married, you can not receive partner benefits. That automatically excludes gays and lesbians from important benefits of society.

I wonder. Is healthy debate dead?

Especially in this thread, when you try to engage in a discussion with someone about their viewpoints, more times than not, they get pissed off and leave.

However, IA (and have said many times in this thread) that the Democratic Party is not perfect. Conversely, there are some Republican ideals that I admire greatly. In a perfect world, this country would have a viable third or fourth party candidate - or candidates - that had a genuine chance at achieving victory. Either in the House, the Senate or the Oval Office. Unfortunately, that's not the case in America today.

And I actually crossed party lines this election and voted for John Mica for Senate. A dyed-in-the-wool Republican. Why? Mostly on the basis of his senority and the fact that he is a huge proponent of the light rail commuter train here in Central FL. His Democratic rival for the seat was a newbie and would not carry the clout that Mica has in regards to that issue. Therefore, I voted Republican.

Admittedly, I'm liberal. But I chose Obama not because of the Dbehind his name, but because I felt he was the best person for the job. If McCain were to have run a more inclusive campaign, and chose a better VP candidate, it would have been hard to decide between the two of them. The last day of the campaign, McCain started airing some very good ads here that detailed his life of service. Very effective and if he would have done something earlier in this race, it would have helped him, IMO.

I admire you greatly, Greg, and am impressed with your fairness and willingness to understand all sides of issues. I'm glad you're my friend, dude. You are one of the most thoughtful, gracious people in this thread. I'll email you back when I get a chance.

I find it hypocritical of blacks to deny civil rights of gays. And the statistics are there, black children are more likely to grow up in a single parent household than any other group.

Lord.

Here we go again with this bullshit.

42 million black Americans and you know what we all do.

Ok.

As far as Lieberman, I don't know. He made his choice awhile ago, and if they were going to do something, it should have been done then.

To do it now makes the Dem. leadership, IMO, look rather childish and petty. Like some BS on the schoolyard, and now they won't Joe play with them anymore.

To hell with it. Let him stay.