2008: The Directors and Writers Thread

[Sylph]

You saw where innovation got us. Freshness won't come from a different structure, mostly because I have no faith in these people inventing a better one. Look at what happened to General Hospital: when Claire Labine wrote for it, on average it had 18 scenes, sometimes 20. But now that Guza is helming it, it's pacing on steroids: I think Kay Alden said it had something like 36 scenes, maybe I'm mistaken, I haven't counted.

Well, the problem is that the Bell's shows have a very specific way of telling stories and these individuals would have to be very, very talented. They would either have to learn really fast or they would have to be huge fans of the show. Honestly, there are breakdown writers on other shows I like, but I'm not sure if being an excellent BDW on one show means being an excellent BDW on any show.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

While that's true, but at this point, I'd settle for writers who know how to structure and write for a soap opera. Not those who think they're writing a flashy and crappy primetime show, like most on that team.

[Sylph]

What sort of a structure for Y&R do you want? Like, I would need you to tell me the number of stories that the show would feature each day, the number of scenes, number of acts... The basics.

P. S. Jim Houghton could also return to write outlines.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

I mean basic things, like longer scenes, longer conversation, more end tags (something that has all but disappeared from Y&R), etc.

These days, the scenes all go by so fast and we barely have time to digest anything. That's not the way a soap opera is supposed to be set up. We have Latham's primetime friends to thank for that.

Y&R's always featured an insane number of stories when compared to other soaps. Bill Bell used to have as many as 7 storylines going on at one time, I believe.

I want to feel the charcters and their thought processes again, you know?

[MarkH]

Well, yes, an "insane" number of stories, but with a very specific structure. Stories 1-3 might be in their final phases, Stories 4-5 might be in the middle, and Stories 6-7 would just be starting. Stories would last for years. What this meant was a very stead diet of distinctly timed crescendos.

(It also tended to mean islanded character groups, so as not to mess up the timing of individual stories).

In the modern era, this can't work. (It could, but it won't be allowed to). Why? Because for stories 6-7 to peak two years from now, there needs to be a very slow, methodical buildup. Modern viewers find that boring. (Some of what people have been complaining about since 12/26/07 is precisely that she is going for a slow, methodical buildup...causing some viewers to say 'nothing is happening').

In addition, nobody has patience anymore for a story that takes 2 years to conclude. They call that "rambling" or "no payoff"...because they are more used to payoff in a tighter time frame.

Now, as for scenes, I don't understand why there can't be a mix? In other words, if modern audiences need 36 scenes in an episode...give it to them...MOST DAYS.

But, if there is a story beat that requires emotion....say, Victoria is consoling her mother...let it play out. Let it be a five minute scene. The length of that scene will give it extra intensity.

I don't understand why it can't all be adapted for specific story needs.

[Sylph]

Of course, it can't. People want events, stuff happening. They don't want three consecutive episodes containing people talking to each other about how f!cked up their emotional lives are. Or those genuine, family scenes.

Well, Bill Bell changed the number of scenes in an episode depending on the story. But he never went over 25.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Well, Mark, it's been two years since Gloria's skin cream fiasco. If she's finally exposed soon and sent to prison where she's brutally attacked, that will be enough of a payoff for me.

[Toups]

Y&R:

- Lisa Seidman first listed as Writer on July 7

She wrote the breakdown.

[MarkH]

LOL. I actually think some version of this will happen.

Now that she is tangling with murderer David Chow, I think she will be on the receiving end of an attempted murder.

I do think there will be a reveal of the cream at some point...maybe if Jack starts to get Jabot back, and Ashley comes home. You're right though...this will be a rare exception to short stories...this is taking YEARS to unfold.

[juppiter]

Let me just say I was the first one to predict that massive amounts of FOH (Friends of Hogan's) would join the Y&R writing team.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

But none of the recent additions have been FOH's. However, I assume most, if not all of these people were hired prior to Hogan coming on board. It will be interesting to see what happens after he's credited.

But I really don't think he'll be doing any hiring or firing, he might have some say, but it's ultimately Maria's decision.

[DaytimeFan]

That's what I really found different under LML's reign of terror. There wasn't any islanding of characters...everyone bled into everyone else's stories so it didn't appear that there was a solid definition between each storyline.

I distinctly recall feeling as if Y&R was a soap about several different storylines that didn't intersect...as if Genoa City was a big town where everyone DIDN'T know everyone else's business.

For example, the Kay/Jill storyline rarely intersected with anything else...it was just Jeanne Cooper and Jess Walton. And then, Jill and the Abbotts were a distinct group, Victor and Nikki were distinct...it wasn't everyone having one big clusterf--k at the GCAC!

As far as the structure of Y&R I want the max to be 22 scenes per show. Longer scenes afford the writers the ability to actually say something...further, there should only be 2 storylines hitting their peak at one time...there needs to be a graduating scale to storylines, that's what Y&R did well and that's why Y&R always did well in Sweeps because storylines were timed properly....there need to be end tags, more thoughtful dialog. Yes, the OTT melodramatic dialog I love, I don't care how bad some say it is, I live for it!

[Sylph]

Bill Bell made a mistake in that he didn't mentor any other writers besides Kay Alden and John F. Smith. He should have picked someone else.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Wasn't he very close to Jerry Birn too, in fact, I think in his personal life he was much closer to Birn than he was to Alden or Smith.

[Sylph]

Yes, they were close because their professional careers stated at the same time, basically. I think it was in some advertising company in Chicago, where they both served as copywriters. Later when Bill left, he took Jerry with him.