GH: Discussion

[JackPeyton]

sam on the witness stand... lmao. please. if anything else this is the bitch that nhired thugs to scare liz. this is the useless whore that watched he freakin baby get kidnaped nthen kept her mouth shut. this is the skank that is screwling lucky to try and get at liz and jason, who obviously dont care about either at this point. lusam is a great couple because both have become so pointless and useless and unwatchable.

and as for alexis... hi hunnie. yeah. DID U FORGET UR DAUGHTERS DADDY IS SONNY C? and you sllow her to be around him.

[Ryan]

Sam was willing to do anything for Jason. She was the ONLY person besides Carly who accepted Jason for who he is and the life he lead. She didn't have any ideas of changing him into being what she wanted him to be. All she wanted was to be loved and respected...which he did....until he decided he knew what was best for her. In his way of trying to protect her from his life, he pushed her away. Then the summer of sleaze happened and we all know how that ended up.

When you're in love, you're willing to accept things that under normal circumstances, you wouldn't. I do see the hypocrisy of Sam being a "credible" witness regarding the danger in Jason's life, when she was so willing to raise a child in that danger. However on the surface level, she can attest to the danger attached with being with Jason. Seeing as how she's been stalked, shot, physically attacked, almost raped and others because of her association with Jason, she would know first hand.

The writers want fans to hate Lucky for wanting to "take" the children away from Elizabeth. However, many fans aren't reacting to the writing the way they want them to. I will say I find hypocrisy in Alexis' actions. She didn't want Rick to take away Molly, but she's so willing to help Lucky secure custody of Jake & Cameron (mainly Jake). Ric definitely is a psycho, but he loves his children. Lucky has his problems, but he loves Elizabeth's children. I do think that they both went about it the wrong way by getting lawyers with ties to people who they are both interested in...and the other hates.

God I hate this show....

[Ryan]

And Liz is the whore who ran over Courtney. Liz is the whore who got pregnant twice by men who weren't her husband, then had the audacity to ask her sperm donors (basically) to give up their parental rights so she could raise her children with her husband. This is also the woman who condones Jason's actions because he "gets rid of the bad people" and all that bs.

No one is perfect in all of this. Everyone is wrong and has done something that makes the other look worse.

[Wales2004]

At first I thought well Alexis is being a hypocrite, but then I took the position of her doing her job. She does have to set aside her personal feelings and pursue the right angle for her client. Now the only problems I have with that is she basically indicated that Diane wasn't thinking about the parties but how is Alexis thinking about the children when she's advocating taking a baby away from his mother? I don't care that the stategy is to get physical custody of Jake to use as leverage to make Elizabeth bend or to use to show he deserves joint custody because it's all based on a lie. The lie is that Jason and Elizabeth are currently involved in an ongoing relationship that puts Jake in danger. There has been no evidence of that shown on screen and Alexis didn't bother to find out what Elizabeth's position is regarding that. She just jumped to the conclusion that Elizabeth will be around Jason. If she can anticipate future contact then she might want to use that intelligence to arrive at the possibility that Jake is not Lucky's biological son so she can anticipate the possibility of being blindsided at some point.

[JackPeyton]

Sam is not credible though. Can she talk about the danger in Jason's life? sure. whoever she has no credit at all. She has done things just as bad as Jason has. She has honestly done worse IMO and i hope Jason tells Diane about Sam's part in terrorizing Liz's children and she brings it up. Besides, SAM cant prove anything, all she can do mis talk about it. And Diane could easily argue shes a lier because shes bitter.

I Agree with you about SAM & Jason all the way. But its not like SAM is now saying that Jason's life was dangerous and shes glad shes out and didn't have a kid with him. All she wants is revenge - for something her sleazy ass set into motion. I am a Sam fan, i love her and KM, however i just don't think SAM has any room to ever be credible or to judge anyone.

Also, I'm sorry but Elizabeth is a far better suited parent. Lucky has a drug history. He cheated on her. Hes now sleeping with a whore who has been out to hurt his children many times now and allows them to be around her. does he know what SAM did? no. well he does know she watched his son get kidnapped and didn't speak up and he has no problem with it? what kind of father is that? So Liz cheated on lucky, after her marriage was over and after he cheated on her.

Now I'm also no saying Jason's life isn't dangerous, it is. That is why Liz didn't want it to come he was the father, but Sam has added more danger to these kids life than Jason has. Also, I just HATE Alexis more and more in all of this. She is such a hypocrite. Again , she allows sonny around her daughter. sonny is just s bad if not worse than Jason. her other baby daddy is Ric. The man who chained a prego Carly to a wall? this scum bag. I'm sorry but in Liz vs Lucky, Liz comes out better even with Jason.

I just don't see Sam as this poor little innocent heroine to be that got used by the big bad Jason. Nor do i see Lucky as this innocent loving husband who's wife cheated on him.

and yes i am a Lasion fan.... however i will always be a bigger fan of Liz & Lucky. I love Sam. the above is just how i feel biased on the story told. it has nothing to do with any fanbase.

she had the audacity? obviously both fathers thought it was best for there child as they did it. And im sorry, but wasnt Sam the one who helped jason a few time skill these people? shyes just as bad. hell, half the show are killers.

And no, no one is perfect. Nor do i recall saying Liz was. But when you break it down, Jason may have done a lot of bad, but none of his crimes are as bad as the ones Sam has done. Or Ric for that matyter. So who the hell do Sam & Alexis think they are judging Liz?

[Wales2004]

It's fine for Sam to choose to live with Jason because she's an adult and it's her life. Sure people in love do crazy things, etc. The hypocrisy is not so much in the fact that she was content to put her life in danger to be with Jason because that's her business. But if she is going on the witness stand to attest to the danger for the children then she's a hypocrite based on the fact that Jason's association with her has brought more potential danger to those kids so far, and that she wanted to bring a child of her own into that danger. Her own child would have had no say in the matter just as Elizabeth's have none either. Any lawyer on their game would shoot her down instantly so she would be useless as a witness.

All the viewers may not be reacting to the s/l the way the writers might intend because they've basically made everyone look bad but it's the degree of "bad" that comes into play. At the end of the day, I'm willing to believe that more viewers will have a problem with a man taking custody of a child away from a mother with no legitimate grounds while he's sleeping with the ex of the "dangerous" man. No matter how terrible Elizabeth's lie is and how people online have made it the crime of the century, it's not bad enough for her baby to be snatched from her. She didn't kill anybody and she didn't physically injure her child.

[Ryan]

So Jason being a contract MURDERER isn't as bad as Sam's cons? Or Ric kidnapping a pregnant woman, chaining her to a wall with the intent of taking her baby...poisoning his wife...and all the other horrible things he's done?

You are rationalizing what Jason does...the same way Elizabeth does. Jason is a criminal. He's a murderer for hire. He kills people for a living.

Alexis is probably the most unbiased party in all of this. But she can criticize Elizabeth because she's been there. Sam on the other hand? No room. But neither can Liz.

[JackPeyton]

sams cons? i wopuld hardly call watching a baby being kidnaped an d not doing anything a con. i would also not call hiring thugs to scare a woman and her childern a con. what if they went to far? she didnt know what they would have done. and no, killing someone who deserves to die isnt as bad as what ric did. and really it has nothing to do with rationalizing what jason does. because if someone were to kill jason id feel the same way about jason killing people.

Alexis is unbiased, ill give you that. but she can judge Liz? why? because Alexis not only did it with one mobster and had a baby but she then hooked up with ric nwho has done things just as bad and had a kid with him.

Sam vs Liz vs Lucky vs Jason... honeslty, what one is the best person? Liz.

I am not saying Jason is this great safe guy who childern should be around. But Liz's involvment with him cant be proven as a bad thing by Sam of all people. Or Lucky who is involved with Sam.

[Skin]

The writers may be writing it that way but from what I can tell from the small percentage of the audience online, it's not happening that way. Alot of posters are fed up with Elizabeth right now and they don't fault Lucky at all for trying to get custody of his sons. Especially since Elizabeth is trying to cut Lucky out of their lives completely and Diane the cross dressing cartoon lawyer of the Corinthois family isn't giving her any favors in the community from what I can tell.

Elizabeth is just a newer "nicer" version of Carly at this point and I am beyond bewildered at the fact that Carly and/or Sonny still have custody of their children.

ITA. I am not one to say what the majority of the fans want to see because there is no possiable way to measure the popularity of Liz, Jason or Lucky. You would literally have to go to each and every fan of the show and ask them how they feel about each character and there is no way to account the popularity of each character. We only get maybe 10% of the daytime audience on the internet. There are many who don't come to the message boards or don't use computers at all. But from the small portion that I have seen, alot aren't okay at all with Elizabeth's actions for the past year or so.

ITA

So you're saying that Lucky "deserves" to lose his sons he has come to love as his own? You're saying that Lucky is the horriable person who deserves to lose custody. Lucky didn't kill anyone, Lucky didn't injure his children, ect. So Lucky deserves to lose his children?

If you chose to believe that more people would side with Elizabeth fine but I wouldn't count on the audience hating Lucky with a fire of a thousand suns for wanting to have custody of his children and be in their lives when Elizabeth is trying her hardest to make Lucky a peripheral figure in their children's lives.

[NeoAngelicLiz]

Liason is the best thing that could have happened to GH. Ric and Alexis were doomed from the start. Sam is a whore and it amazes me that some poeple think she truly loved Jason. That was an act and they wanted us to fall for it. Shes a user and shes just out for money. She always will be. Lucky is stupid as dirt. Liz is well rid of him. I don't see how these couples were destroyed when the basis for their beginning was never fully believable IMO (except Liz and Lucky who have a history).

And yes the mob may not be the perfect example of everyday Christian family values but its REAL and frankly makes GH fun to watch. Theres a reason The GodFather Trilogy is loved by like almost everyone. I'm not saying I watch GH just cuz of the mob stuff. I love all of it. The hospital and outside of the hospital.

Yes Lucky deserves to lose his kids. They were never really his to begin with. And his attitude towards Liz is beyond despicable.

[Ryan]

Again, people who "deserved" to die. Why did they deserve to die? Because St. Jason and Super Sonny said so?

Sam hiring people to scare Elizabeth (Sam didn't anticipate the kids would be there) as well as watching baby Jizus be kidnapped is inexcusable. Her "moment of weakness" was a complete moment of bullshit. When was talking about her cons, I wasn't referring to what she did recently.

Alexis can judge Elizabeth because she's been in the situation Liz is in. Alexis kept Kristina's paternity a secret for years because of the danger she felt her daughter would be in if the truth came out. Alexis' worse fears came true when shortly after the truth came out, Kristina was kidnapped along with Michael & Morgan. Unlike Liz, Alexis doesn't try to excuse what Sonny does. As a matter of fact, she would prefer it if Kristina spent NO time with Sonny. She's made no secret of that. Her interest is for her child, not what her vagina longs for.

From a GH "mindset", Sam can prove that involvement with Jason brings about a cloud of danger because she's experienced it first hand. Being the good lawyer that Diane is, she'll question Sam regarding her willingness to accept it while she was with Jason, but not when she's not with him. But from an eye witness standpoint, Sam's testimony could help Lucky.

And in the case of Sam vs. Jason vs. Lucky vs. Liz, the only innocents are the children affected by the immaturity and assholyness of the adults involved. As far as the best person, I can't pick because I happened to have liked all 4 at one time or another. I see them all as big slate of gray, not black and white. Meaning no person is better than the other.

I respect your opinion JP, and I'm glad that we're able to discuss this without getting personal and rude like some people at other boards.

Glad to see you posting again with us

[NeoAngelicLiz]

No because they did....

Just like Sam deserves to die as well.

Lucky may be stupid but he doesn't deserve to die. Now if he turns psycho like Sam and starts hurting Elizabeth and putting her in danger than he go die just like AJ.

[Ryan]

Hello ATWTCarOn aka BradLover aka aka LiasonAgent007....I see you're posting again.....for now.....

[Wales2004]

I really don't like comparing crimes or bad deeds because I think people tend to end up downplaying something that on its own is grave but may not look as bad as what the next person did. Bad deeds should stand on their own and people should take responsibility for their actions and not pawn it off on anyone else or justify it by saying it's not as bad as this. That said, Jason is a killer and there is no way to justify or excuse it because it's not as if he only kills people in self defense at the point of attack.

I'm one of the viewers that don't take the mob stuff seriously because it's too lame and ridiculous. I can't be hung up on that and yet buy into this co-existence between them and the other citizens of PC. I've listened to countless characters talk about Sonny being this horrendous criminal and they turn around and having him at their social affairs or attend his so it's a joke. The fact that Nikolas interacts with Jax despite what he did is a joke. The fact that Jerry is roaming around PC doing whateer he wants and all these people know what he did is a joke. Coop being a cadet is nothing compared to the number of ridiculous social situations in which the thugs and citizens peaacefully engage.

Soaps basically tell viewers that these are good "bad" guys to be loved and respected and that's the general feeling they exude. I think the only viewers who go beyond that are the ones who become emotionally invested or who start to give the soaps too much thought. When people try to reconcile soaps with real life then they run into all kinds of moral dilemmas and internal conflicts that test them to some degree. It's precisely why certain people have to look at Luke's rape of Laura as some sort of seduction because the alternative would be that they adore a rapist and his victim and call it love. Since we generally aren't treated to scenes of Jason running around killing in cold blood, it's easier to see him as someone who only kills those who endanger the mob family with the heart of gold. Only the bad "bad" guys ever look threatening and menacing and sometimes quite ugly.

I would say that Diane is the most unbiased because she's the most detached and she's simply doing her job in her usual ruthless manner. Just because Alexis has been in a similar situation doesn't give her the right to criticize, especially since she made a mess of things. She's supposed to be savvy and intelligent but she became a bumbling schoolgirl with Sonny. Now she didn't intend to get pregnant anymore than Elizabeth did and she conspired to keep the truth from Sonny. Elizabeth did the reverse and essentially conspired to keep the truth from the "not" father. Then she turns around and gets involved with Ric and his loose screw. Now she's got the little schoolgirl thing for Jerry. She is in no position to criticize anyone. Now if you say she could give advice based on her poor judgment and what it's cost her, I would agree with that. But in no way can she talk down to someone when she's borderline twitty and to compound things, she's not young and impressionable.

[NeoAngelicLiz]

What are you talking about? I simply responded to your post with my opinion

Yet because my opinion matches some former member on this board you automatically assume I'm them.

Your logic is really breathtaking.

NO I'm not any of those people. I don't know what I have to do to prove it to you or that Actor guy.

As for the whole Liz/Sam thing Liz is the better person 100% of the time. Shes not perfect but shes a decent human being which is more than I can say for someone who hires people to scare innocent kids.