The time has come for a new head writer and executive producer on ATWT

[titan1978]

I would like to see Wendy Riche given the EP spot. She burned out at the end on GH, but for many years she did excellent work. Carolyn Culliton did great things with Hogan, and I think she would be much better than the HW we have now. I don't think she should do it alone though.

[P.J.]

Well, the stories SUCK. Goutman has allowed that to happen. This is the same guy who canned Laiman as HW after six months and after a good first year, didn't notice Sheffer was rewriting the same stories. He was behind the College Tour, which was beyond bad. We're sliding into the ABC mentality of "event" storytelling (the Ice Storm, the Raven Lake Slasher) and away from our strength of "multi-generational storytelling". There is ONE token black person in town, Luke's story was abruptly dropped, and until the WW takeover, there was hadn't been a business story in years. I still maintain that the 50th anniversary shows were a disgrace.

If that's not enough to get him canned, I don't know what is. His brilliance in hiring Sheffer, garnering awards, and promotion (Inturn, etc) won't excuse the poor ratings forever.

[winterguy125]

They both need to go and fast, take a look at the latest ratings for a reason as to why, and I have read that pretty much CG is running things right now, so alot of this crap is his fault, granted there is some casting news that I am looking forward to, but how much airtime will these new people get one day a week? because we all know that 4-5 days a week must be left open for CG's new Cleo creation and the never ending repetitive storyline that is Will and Gwen, same thing for Katie and Brad must make sure they are on 4-5 days a week doing the same crap everyday and every week. The WorldWide storyline was a great step in making things better, but it is going to take a whole lot more than that, like I said the casting news sounds promising on so many levels but what will happen with these new people, just the fact that Luke has not been seen in 3 weeks already scares me in the regards to the casting news about him, what is he going to get 3 days a month for a storyline?. ATWT just needs to learn how to balance things that is the key, once they do that ratings will come back, like I always have said no character should be on more than 3 days a week unless there storyline is climaxing, unfortunately we have four to five characters and mind you the same four to five characters on each week 4-5 days and there storylines are no where near climaxing in fact we watch a whole week and it is like we just saw the same thing in the last week, Pretty much I don't give a frig who the hell character you are you don't need to be on everyday of everyweek without a reason to be. Much of my Gwen and Will hate all comes from the fact that they get more airtime than any of the other characters combined on the show, and nothing new ever happens with them, so it is very boring. Give Gwen her attitude and her street smarts that she had and start showing her less and I would love her again, also one thing that would be nice is if Will could have a storyline for a change about him, I am sick to death of every storyline that Will and Gwen have always being about Gwen. As for Brad/Katie/Jack you know what it would be interesting if and only if there was some kind of movement in the storyline, I am just totally sorry but I have never been a fan of slow moving storylines that take forever to tell, I hated Y&R for doing it, and I can't stand when ATWT did that, I may have hated Hogan's writing most of the time but atleast his storylines moved everyday, unlike this crap. I think the best way I can descirbe how I feel when I am watching is that four out of five days feel like filler shows to me with no movement, you have to have 3-5 shows a week with movement not just one. Another thing that bugs me there is this new fanbase for Henry and Vienna, mind you I don't like the word fanbase and don't think the show should totally revolve around them, but still where are those two at, they have totally disappeared from our screens and for what, more filler shows that have Gwen, Will, Katie, Brad, Jack doing the same thing they did last week. Jack, Katie, and Brad have not said anything new in the last month yet they are on every single day, same thing for Will and Gwen, if Gwen ain't crying about Adam her and Will are in a Bed making love, nothing new ever happens. Carly is back now a great plus for ATWT but how long will we see her and Cleo going around town doing nothing? when will Jack and her kids find out she is home? I will tell you probably after a month of no movement in the storyline that is when. Also what ATWT needs to do is cycle out the characters that it focuses on? I have never in all my soap years seen so many characters focused on for so long while other characters get a storyline once a year if that. I know I talk alot about Luke but it is a good example they had a great storyline for him with lots of potential for it fans were loving it and it just ended in one moment and has been gone for 10 months, what kind of storytelling is that? How about Barbara when was the last time she had a storyline about her and not about Will and Gwen? Years. As for the other vets maybe there is not a great storyline for them, but they still need to be around more, and there are tons of occasions when they could be, but these writers don't use them at all. All in all there should be atleast one vet at all times in a major storyline, one thing I praise right now is that they are using Lucinda finally after wasting her for years, now what I would like to see is another vet get a storyline after hers ends, hopefully that will happen. And as always History must be used, it just makes the show better, some feel that history does not matter, and that is fine but for this viewer it does.

I love my show always will but things do need to change.

[RogerNewcomb]

I think they both should go. Goutman was good for ATWT in 1999 but it's obvious now that he doesn't "get" what ATWT is about. The fact that he put on such a bad anniversary display and ignores the family holidays that were so special to ATWT shows me he doesn't get what fans who watch the show are looking for. Maybe if he were producing a new show he could make it work.

I wouldn't mind some brand new blood at EP. Maybe a promoted writer or director who really understand what makes ATWT unique and great.

[DH23]

Get me Karen Harris, Barbara Bloom (she used to write for soaps), Millie Taggert, Michele Val Jean, even Jack Smith (sue me I liked his stuff!) - anybody but JERk, Megan McTrash, Guza the Luza, Dena Higley, and Jean Passante. As for exec producers, I guess Francesca James.

[Chris B]

I've given up on any kind of hope for a new regime. Despite the complaints from the fans AND cast and extremely low ratings (2.2 this week, a new low), nothing has been done. Since late last year they've dropped from a 2.7 to a 2.2 and in all these months where are the changes? Anyone with good sense would've replace Passanante long ago, but they are loyal to her.

I said when she won the Writers Guild Award that she was here to stay 100%. I was right, I still hope to be wrong, but I'm doubtful. The ironic thing is that she won the WGA based on Luke's storyline, a character she used as a publicity stunt and quickly dumped. It's been almost a year without Luke featured regularly. You don't need to jump into a romance, but why couldn't we see him at school adjusting to the kids learning he was gay? Or any future development with his family? Their golden child Maddie could even be tied to the story.

I'm not Anti!Teen, but the writing for them is terrible which makes the extreme amount of screentime even more infuriating. Jade has been destroyed connected with Saint!Gwen, Original!Dallas is tons of potential wasted, Luke is a total waste as is Kevin. Gwen has lost all of her spunk, Will is draining to watch and Maddie is a hypocritical loon who has lost all her charm.

My overreaching point is that the writing is not working in any capacity. The scripts are good and the only thing that makes the show watchable.

[jfung79]

I think Goutman and Passanante are both problems. Even in 1999, I didn't like the changes that Goutman made to AW or to ATWT. Goutman is too concerned with surface appearances, not with substantive story.

It should come as no surprise given my poster history that I want Richard Culliton to be headwriter. As for EP, I don't know, maybe promote from within? Hasn't one of the producers been there a long time and would know the history? Vivian Gundaker?

I think ATWT is okay right now, so it can limp along without a change for a few more months, but a return to roots would be most welcome.

[Sam Ford]

Hey! I just got signed up at Soap Opera Network, and I was excited to see a great thread about the future of ATWT. I've been giving a lot of thought lately to these issues, about the future of soaps, and I think the most important thing to keep in mind is that there are problems that extend beyond any one person, so there's no bad egg to replace and then everything would be completely better...That's what is the most frustrating, I guess.

The other problem is that there is really no show to point to that is running on all eight cylinders, to hold up as the exemplar that other shows should look toward. I think you all point out something very important about multigenerational storytelling, though. The problem is the simple-minded marketing mentality that has led to shows trying to directly appeal to 18-49 females and, in the process, have watched numbers dwindle for years.

I don't think there's any doubt that the O.J. trial and women in the workforce and the proliferation of media choices have all played a part in the decline, a major part, but I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that daytime soaps are on their way out and that some of the decisions the industry made as a whole has helped accelerate this decline...

[Adam]

ATWT can be salvaged. There is no question. One of the most talented casts out there.... if they are given GOOD material like they got for the most part under Hogan ATWT would be come a great show once again.

[Chris B]

Welcome to the forum Sam!

This has always been confusing to me because in primetime the highest rated shows (with the 18-49 demo) always feature adult characters. Even a hit teen show like The O.C. or 90210 at their peak can't compete with the real hits like a Dallas or ER or Grey's Anatomy, all full of characters over 30. Every soap has tried to bring in teens by filling the shows with teens and it has never worked.

A major reason the soaps don't work today is because they have lost their identity in attempts to be current. Look at Kay Alden/Jack Smith at Y&R. Everything that made Y&R what it is has been removed. The unique direction including the signature Waiter/Flower establishing shots were removed, long character driven scenes were replaced with three page scenes, the entire glamour of the show has been replaced to be more realistic, etc., etc.

All of these changes have stripped Y&R of it's identity and made it exactly like the other soaps and instead of relying on character driven drama we have the ultimate in plot driven shock storytelling. Yes the ratings occasionally rise during sweeps, but otherwise nobody is watching. The more legacy characters that are removed the lower the ratings have gotten. When Alden/Smith were on the writing was higher and most stable. Viewers knew they could tune in and find Y&R.

If you look at ATWT's ratings, the timeslot switch with B&B didn't hurt it, losing Douglas Marland did. Most rating drops can be attributed to bad writing, which is the last thing they look at.

In ATWT and most of these current soaps, the headwriter is a very major problem. Y&R has someone who doesn't understand soaps, OLTL has the woman responsible for almost cancelling DAYS, AMC has Megan McTavish lol and GH/B&B have burnt out writers. With or without network interference these writers have proven themselves to be awful.

ATWT's headwriter is just a dreadful headwriter and always has been. Her work was so bad at Another World, many attribute her to the cancellation. When she was at AMC, it almost suffered the same fate as AW, but ABC cares more about their soaps than to let her kill it. The reason she's semi-worked at ATWT is because she's surrounded by talented writers for the most part and for the first year and a half of her run she still had Hogan helping her.

I strongly believe that replacing just her would do a lot of good for the show. I understand everyone has their hand in the cookie jar, but she has proven herself to be a painfully bad writer. A better writer can work within these contraints and still get their vision across. The problem is that they never seem to pick a genuinely good writer. I know OLTL fans never expected after the terror of Michael Malone 2.0 that he'd be replaced with the woman who put DAYS at the bottom of the ratings. Who thought hiring her would be a good idea?

[Sam Ford]

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All of these changes have stripped Y&R of it's identity and made it exactly like the other soaps and instead of relying on character driven drama we have the ultimate in plot driven shock storytelling. Yes the ratings occasionally rise during sweeps, but otherwise nobody is watching. The more legacy characters that are removed the lower the ratings have gotten.

Using Y&R as an example was interesting. When Kay Alden was here, she talked a lot about her work on Y&R, but she didn't talk a lot about the current changes on Y&R or her leaving. Of course, Kay is honest and passionate, but she has faith in a lot of the talent in the industry as well, and I know that she is impressed by the dedication Brian Frons has shown to keeping soaps on the air by creating the SOAPnet business model, by emphasizing that the network-owned soaps on ABC gives the network a strong reason to want those shows to survive, etc.

But our work on my thesis project together, and Kay's talk, emphasized exactly what you are talking about, the importance of characters and consistency. I guess I care about ATWT in particular because I've watched it most of my life and spent the last two years working on this thesis project.

I'm not saying that particular creators don't make bad moves or other creators are particularly good (and of course Marland deserves the credit in ATWT's case), but I do think the main problem facing soaps is systemic and ingrained in not just the soaps industry but advertising and the overall TV industry as well. Part of it is about this niche target age/gender demographic that drives ad sales. I am going to blog about this issue sometime tomorrow at the Convergence Culture Consortium Weblog, the marginalization of the 50+ baby boomer audience, and I've written before about how it's hard for a show to take a transgenerational approach when the industry is obsessed with only a particular demographic...

[David V]

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Welcome to the forum Sam!

This has always been confusing to me because in primetime the highest rated shows (with the 18-49 demo) always feature adult characters. Even a hit teen show like The O.C. or 90210 at their peak can't compete with the real hits like a Dallas or ER or Grey's Anatomy, all full of characters over 30. Every soap has tried to bring in teens by filling the shows with teens and it has never worked.

I can't agree more. But when 90210 was popular back in the day, some felt Daytime's youth obsession can be traced to that. To an extent, shows like Dallas and Dynasty also influenced Daytime in the 80s- more glitz and glamour et al. Just look at Capitol, Santa Barbara and B&B- those shows were very much products of that era in every way.

It's also why I hold JERk at least partially responsible for the current sorry state of Daytime- because stupidity, shock value and sensationalism became de rigeur on Daytime ever since due to his influence. But the trend of soaps copying each other instead of being original really started back in the 80s if not before- and the reason Y&R stayed on top for so long is because it avoided being a copycat.

The timeslot switch which took place in 1987 didn't affect ATWT's ratings that much and in fact the show managed to rise to the top 5. It was still top 5 for at least 2 years after Marland's death under Packer/Backus and then Culliton. It really only took the plunge under Black/Stern, and only improved/stabilised under Broderick.

I think Malone wasn't entirely to blame for the failure of his second run. He had one hand tied behind his back and couldn't write his own kind of show.

It pains me that people like McTavish, Higley and Passanante often ended up getting jobs elsewhere after they are rightlyfully removed, whilst far better writers like Broderick, Labine and Culliton don't have HW jobs atm.

[juniorz1]

Unfortunately, that's true right now. Up until the last 1/2 of Jack Smith's run, you could point to Y&R as the show that the others could look to as a role model. Now, not so much.

WORD! What fans seem to forget (and others don't even seem to understand) is that, for every brilliant story he had on DAYS in the 90s, there were two or three crapfests also being shoved down our throats. And every character, especially the men, were turned into complete & utter morons and stripped of their personality traits and basically everything that distinguished our long-time favorites from the others. Y&R always did it's own thing and therefore, was able to maintain the audience it had while the other soaps faltered.

Abso-freaking-lutely. It pains me that a brilliant writer like Donna Swajeski is constantly given the co-head b!tch position at GL while other clueless, talentless, green daytime writers Ellen Weston and David Kreizman are appointed top dog.

In all honesty, I think Goutman should be shifted to GL. He's a guy that really has an energy about him when he's fixing & revitalizing a show and would be put to better use at ATWT's sister show. Creatively, he's bored with ATWT, but is still a capable, talented executive producer who should continue to work in daytime.

With that said, I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I think the Dobsons would be brilliant in any capacity at GL, though I'm not sure how interested they'd be in returning to daytime. If not them, I wouldn't mind seeing Gary Tomlin as the executive producer.

As for the head writer position, I think Michael Malone would be an interesting and inspired choice. Come to think of it, maybe the Gottlieb/Malone tag team should take over ATWT. Lord knows we'd at the very least finally get an interesting, complex, front-burner storyline for Luke. And even (gulp) a ratings spike.

[Sam Ford]

By the way, as I have mentioned elsewhere, if anyone here is interested in seeing a copy of the thesis project, e-mail me at [email protected].

[Dr. Jay S.W.]

Sam, I read over your thesis. Job well done.