AMC: Friday

[Kylie]

Well, I still want to string her up by her toes, and burn her at the stake if that counts for anything. LMAO Hey, that woman gave me David and Erica, twice...Josh or no Josh, a part of me will always be able to see past the crap, and remember the good. But if you told me tomorrow (and god I hope someone does, LOL) that she's gone, I'd the first to call the studios and sing "Hit the road Jack (changing some of the words) to her psychcotic a*s.

[Pine Charles]

Thanks, Jude.

What's funny about this is that I hate McT as much as anyone! Wasn't I the one that talked about all the “Jump the Shark” moments in the last 2 years? I’m just saying that I enjoy her writing usually during the first 2 years! But I guess I'm not allowed that opinion.......and neither is anyone else.

[Steve]

Now there you go again, R Sinclair!

[Steve]

Okay, I'll act like you:

GMAFB! All this whining about how bad Jacob Young is!

That is NOT an attack on you.

Feel better now?

[Steve]

As far as McT goes, I agree with Rugrat that Anna Cascio and Gordon Rayfield's work had improved by May 2003. They finally seemed to know what they were doing when they were fired.

McT was fine when she was wrapping up their storylines, but when it came time to create her own, she did what she always does: She bombed!

[alwaysAMC]

Wow - I wake up this morning and this thread went from 1 page to 4!

Great reads - great remembrances of the show - and funny arguments.

First, JSF - you have a point with the "Zoe" and "she" thing. I don't know any TG's, but I wouldn't call one a 'she' when he isn't dressed like one...but I think Babe wanted to maybe stress that Zarf/Zoe is a TG.

As for Bianca, it's understandable for her to not believe Zarf at all, since she assumes (and he admitted, bc he was scared/upset) that it was all an act to get her in bed....so I doubt that she'd assume those drugs were estrogen shots.

As for Eden and Bianca - ITA with all of you - she's a good girl, but I can't help but love her....there is something about Eden's acting I guess.

As for the previous 'jumping the shark' moments - I really liked most of those moments. We knew Trevor wasn't going to come back, well I wouldn't accept a recast, so having Janet murder him and putting him in that freezer only made the cabin stuff way more entertaining and freaky. Also, it gave Amanda/CS a chance to shine. Plus I don't buy the fact that Janet wouldn't kill Trevor - when Janet and Trevor left PV, they were already fighting and not getting along - then we saw flashbacks of them arguing alot and screaming at each other. Well we all know Janet is CRAZY and she was at an all-time crazy during her return - so why not in her crazy little mind would putting Trevor in a freezer as 'timeout' be too ridiculous of an idea?

That moment when JR peed on Josh was a little erotic to me...call me crazy, but that 10 second moment was hardly 'jump the shark'.

[rsmith2k2]

I appreciate that folks enjoyed the first part of McT's regime as is their right, but I cannot see a few months of decent story makes this whole regime worth it, by any means...not that anyone said that outright.

I see it more as the "torch", the "spark" that lit the fuse of the Auntie Meg's atomic bomb obliterating AMC. Being a lesbian fan gives you a whole different prism through which to looks at McHack'n'Sack 3.0 (admittedly not their was no unified lesbian opinion).

I can see nothing different from her very first story from the pattern we've seen over and over and over since then. Sensation! Promise then intrigue is created, folks sit up and pay attention then scattershot, tangetizing plot points until all meaning is lost. Rape=Love? Rape=Family Legacy? Regressive, ridiculous and insulting themes, imo.

Bianca is my favorite character and McT came out of the starting block aiming for the only lesbian in Daytime with both barrels blazing. Woe be the gay character for whom McT writes with utter and arrogant cluelessness.

I enjoyed the Kane Women dynamic, coming together, the development of Kinks even though Kinks came at the cost of/in lieu of any support for or even any communication with a gf for Bianca but Kendall was never without. Kinks were developing and could have continued to do so in lots of other ways.

And no I am not discounting the effects of rape, I am not talking about having sex, I am speaking of maintaining a partner or at least some developing communication. Showing how the rape affected them as a couple and how they find their way back...Bianca and Lena never had a single conversation about her rape. No therapy was shown until the next year(!) and only once or twice. That had to be thrown aside for BFF time with Maggie and Bianca's former gf shut out, talking to doors with no one around to hear her, having little Maggie Stone browbeating Lena at every turn and finally a suicide attempt.

Yes, I think starting with Michael's murder was an exciting time in some ways. Because McT knows how to devastate utterly and that's what she did to the audience with Bianca's rape. It sealed the emotional involvement with Michaeal's murder...Lather. Rinse. Repeat. for The Baby Switch. The actors really stepped it up, but a lot of folks were getting pretty cranky about how the murder reveal was drawn out.

My point is that I know she brought some folks back to AMC (though she did Not garner any fantabulous ratings from the rape or even Michael's murder) and that some folks liked what she brought storywise...but as a whole the audience was not yet accustomed to her special brand of gimmickry. I know I took a lot of hits here for criticism of her at the time....but for me the cost has NEVER been worth 1 arguably decent story in 3.5 years. Despite having several superficially identifiable stories, there was but one story "Torturing Bianca" for a good part of that time. It gave Eden lots of material (and I think in a lesser actor's hands, McT's work wouldn't have had the success it did), but it hurt Bianca, imo.

So in 3.5 years, for the only lesbian in Daytime, McT's brought her a very special episode and brutal rape laced with mind games about her sexuality, which broke up Biancca's groundbreaking relationship with Lena from whom Bianca walked away without ONE WORD of explanation, Follow-up with impregnation, the choice not to abort, the birth then stealing of that child, the driving to near/total insanity in grief and the destruction of Bianca's integrity by her acceptance of her babystealer. Not that I care to ever see them together, but she screwed over Bianca chances at a relationship with Maggie, too. And now, she brings back Bianca to "soul attraction" (with the complete ignorance of the physical component of romantic feelings, "confusion about her orientation") with a TG played by a male actor. No. Not happy with Megan's tenure. None of it.

I agree that the show was coming back into it's own later in RC era, but I enjoyed some not all of their material, bui the Micheal/Lena/Enchantment/Fusion stuff was great, imo. And modern in a way McT's mind can't comprehend. RC apparently decided to have Michaal become a rapist (though not Bianca's), and I didn't find that appealing or even smart either and I wouldn't have been happy no matter whom the unlucky victim was to be. But there's just something about soaps and rape...what the hell is it? *eyes Passions, too*

I don't know enough about her previous reigns to judge them, but it seems that McT only does her best work in the first 18-24 months because she's busy hacking the previous administration's storylines/setups/characters. Without what RC had established, McT couldn't have created the best of the crap of all the crap she's written in McT 3.0.

And I find it hysterical, in her darkening days, where desperation for ratings, buzz, sensation, ANYTHING to get folks back in, she's all back up in the Cambius mythos she did NOT create again, dragging Kenny out of the ether, semi-corporate story, Fusion-based, blah, blah...HACK!

I'd give up every single viewing experience I've had on AMC since McT took over, if a wish would take everything from July 2003 on away and we'd could start AMC anew a la Bobby Ewing on Dallas...as though McTravesty 3.0 never happened.

What have we really gained that couldn't have been achieved by less untalented, less clueless, less hackneyed, less laden with Freud-would-be-so-proud neuroses about parents, love, sex, gay people, TGs and bodily fluids writers. Nothing. If anything Fronsie or someone's been trying to reset the show back to his vision of early 2003. If only we hadn't had this terrible detour.

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RR, I don't think it would be hard to write that any of the suspects for the SSK could have had Zach investigated to find out enough about his past to mindf*ck him with now, in order to frame him, or in some sort of revenge scheme. I mean most folks know he's a Cambius by birth. And, IIRC, Tad didn't have too much trouble finding out info. I think that aspect will be pretty easy to write in once McT decides who the SK actually is.

JonnyBoy could have accidentally poisoned Erin (maybe she picked up a pitcher of posion cocktails accidentally). Or it could be old issues come to the forefront. JonBoy could still be mad at Zach by some weird perception that Zach is against HeroBro Ryan! That's what set him off when he first arrived...Ryan deserved the world and anyone who got in his way was Eeeeeveeeeel to AngerBoy,

John's on my short list still.

Josh is my suprise dark horse.

Though she's set it up so probably 10 people could have done it.

[Canfan]

Oh I love reliving old AMC memories. I also agree with those of you that said middle 2003 beginning 2004 was good. I will always appreciate Megan for giving me Kinks much like she gave me Courtney/AJ on GH but overall her writing bombs. I personally think killing off Michael so soon was a mistake. While I had no wish to watch him torture Bianca and the Kane women endlessly, the show has'nt had a really good villian since. Except maybe Garrett the Dragon who they also killed off. Its sad but the villians on the show tend to be played by good actors who can give them layers in spite of the acting and the heroes played by poor ones who can't overcome it.

I came back to watch the show around May 2003 as well, I just loathed Chris Stamp and was so glad he was dead. I loved Anna/David and their losing Leora broke my heart. I just hate child-dying storylines. Its short-term story telling with no long-term forsight. Then we get these kids out of nowhere because they have wasted the generation that should have been created. Cough... Babe...Cough.

I loved the Kane women coming together to take down Michael. One thing I liked about DeVry's acting is he never played Michael as sympathetic. The guy was always a whining self-piting pig. I was glad Binks blew him away because he would have made it his life's mission to destroy her to get what he wanted. I liked that even though Kendall was still a mess, she was a tougher mess. I thought Susan's acting during the murder trial was the best I have ever seen from her. She gave me chills in the scenes with Myrtle after the dress ripping, and then when Bianca tells her she's still pregnant. I miss those days. It was'nt perfect soap but so much better than the current crap on the air.

I think the show really started going downhill around fight club. That was just so stupid I barely watched. Then sperm-gate and I turned out because pod Kendall showed up. Simone was the only highlight of that storyline. I barely watched after that because I was ffing through so much of the show.

I hated when Janet killed Trevor. As a Trevor/Natalie fan I was beyond pissed at what they did to him. I thought it was disgusting.

If I had to list all the moments I have hated since Megan took over I guess these would be it:

1. Babe offers to sleep with Jamie on NY's eve

2. Babe decides Miranda is better off with her and Jr

3. Ryan is given Cambias back after Miranda is declared dead

4. David choses Babe over Bianca.

5. Edmund turns into an ass

6. Fight Club

7. Sperm-gate

8. Ryan fakes his death and finds tumour boy.

9. The unaborted fetus. The worst plot in daytime history. What a slap in the face to longtime viewers.

10. Bianca is attracted to a physical male. Especially as she said before her rape hearing to Jack. Everyone knows I don't sleep with men- ever.

As for Babe lecturing Bianca. Please. Babe has no moral ground to lecture anyone. She kept Miranda for months after finding out who she was, committed bigamy, slept with a stranger her first night in town, ran off with her husband's brother and his kid, helped Jr cover up running over Amanda, and helped Jr get off for hurting Kendall. She also is encouraging Krystal to keep another baby lie and is actively leading on her lover. As for her accepting Bianca as gay. Babe accepts everyone because she does'nt care what they do or who they are. Unless they are trying to make her feel bad. Its her only criteria for judging anyone.

As soon as I read Babe was involved in this storyline I knew it was going to become all about her and how wonderful she is. As usual they dumb Bianca down to make this happen just like the babyswitch. Viewers can go from hating a character to liking them. I hated Amanda and grew to like her. But I saw the character change, and I am just not seeing that with Babe, there is no character growth going on, which is why I still hate her. And Ryan too for that matter.

[R Sinclair]

Okay, thanks, sweetie. But just to let you know, it was all tongue-in-cheek. If you think I take any of these anonymous, faceless opinions to heart and think it's actually my life's mission to affirm and condemn them, then... whoosh! I don't know you people from a hole in the wall, so why is anything I say being taken to the utmost personal level?! But it's my fault. I keep forgetting not to judge others by myself. Not everybody is able to be detached from their arguments. I guess you can take the kid out of the high school debate team, but... yadda, yadda, yadda...

[alwaysAMC]

^^I've come to realize that most of R_Sinclair's comments are tongue-in-cheek. I laugh now and realize that he's not too personal about much of what he says. I find him pretty funny...

We all have opinions, I hope we can still all share them.

[R Sinclair]

I enjoyed and agreed with all that you posted, but I have to say that I strongly believe that Michael wasn't going to be a rapist under RC. Rumors had been going around slightly before the Lesbian Rape that Brian Frons was "sold" on McTavish's idea of the Kane Women's Legacy of Rape... and the Michael character was probably tweaked and twisted to fit the antagonist role in that "legacy."

The impression I got from RayCascio's Michael was that he had a heart which so desperately ached for his father's approval, which is what drove him to be such a shady businessman. That Michael seemed to operate on a more psychological basis -- not some dark man who would rape some young woman on a boarding house sofa.

[dragonflies]

What I meant was yeah Kendall can forgive, but it's very out of character for her to forgive JR for almost killing her son and herself. She'll NEVER forgive Babe for what she did to Binks, why would she forgive JR for almost killing HER son?

Zach is the BOSS of the security guards watching Kendall, he hired them. I'd knock the drink out of the guy's hand too. They don't know who the killer is, and that coffee could have been spiked with anything.

[All My Shadows]

Well Zach sure as hell was paranoid, then. That paranoia could have caused him to knock the coffee out of his hand, but for him to demand that the guy clean it up afterwards? That would have been the precise moment that I would have said "Screw this job," and walked away.

[Angela]

I don't know if I agree. What got McTavish her job back is that the plan was to have Kendall raped, but she suggested Bianca be raped instead and the whole way she was going to do it [Kane Women "Love Story," Kinks]. Now, that makes me doubt she was the one who was planning the initial rapist status of Michael. Anybody remember the "exact" date of her return. Wasn't is Michael attempting to rape Kendall when she went into his condo to steal files? And wasn't that in May? Because Michael was "taken down" initially in late May. Just looked it up, May 15, 2003: http://www.tvmegasite.net/day/amc/transcri...ns-05-15-03.htm

I'm guessing by the time I've posted this, smith will have already replied to this as well, maybe.

Oh man, amazing work from her particuarly pre-April 2004. And that scene was one of the tops. Kendall dress just ripped off. She goes to Kendall and Bianca before she leaves, and is all "I don't understand" and you sort of want her to reach out to Kendall, to comfort her, who in turn replies, "you'll never understand, Erica" and then as Erica walks out Kendall finally lets a sob out. Erica goes home in a daze subconciously knowing Bianca is the one pregnant with her rapists's baby...and looks in the mirror and....

Myrtle: You can erase all this from your mind, darling.

Erica: That's what I did when I was 14. I erased everything from my mind. I mean, it wasn't just that I told myself I wasn't pregnant. I really didn't know. I really didn't know. I mean, even when I would wake up in the mornings and I would just feel so sick to my stomach and I would notice that my body was changing, I just wouldn't let myself see. My mother saw, though. She finally saw what I was hiding from myself. She came into the bathroom one morning. She saw me standing there in front of the mirror. She saw a 14-year-old girl carrying a baby. And even when she told me, I didn't believe it. I never made that connection. But she kept after me, and I did finally believe. I did finally see. And then I screamed. I screamed for two days, Myrtle. Then, after that, I never said a word. I never said a word until that child was born, until that rapist's child was gone from my body, gone from my life.

Myrtle: Darling -- darling, sweetheart, stop this. The past is past. Now it's different. Michael's baby is gone.

Erica: Then why do I still feel like screaming?

I agree with whoever (Steve) said McTavish tied up R&C's story well (and I include the Michael murder story/Miranda pregnancy in that despite the dragging out, since they started the this guy is going to be a major S-O-B thing), but was very much more miss when it came to creating her own stories. To me May 2003 came close to perfect AMC, and if they hadn't gone for rape, it would have stayed that way, they could have kept Michael on for longer as a villain. That said, I don't mind rape storylines, I do think they're (rapes, that is) gimmicks though to avoid thinking stronger in terms of getting from point g to point h. But, at least at the time I don't think it was a distraction from actual lesbian life tactic (for Bianca) - I think McTavish as well as R&C (if that was actually them in May) were very interested in changing the dynamics with the Kane Women, and I think that's something so much of the audience wanted badly. It wasn't the most kosher way to go about it...

...sometimes I think what would have been if they never went the rape way. You pushed Bianca up to holy saint, and you made Kendall a major heroine in her anti-heroine crazy way (which I appreciated, she was still a bitch in heels, but what a sacrificing one) - what if everything was more subtle. I always come back to the fact that it was actually the choices after Michael was really put to rest that I didn't like versus the evolution created pre April-2004. So, I didn't really dislike much about the Rape/Pregnancy or Murder storyline pre-April 2004 (I did dislike how Ryan drilled himself into the role of Protector despite everybody's protest, as crazy as the plotting was, the women were doing it for themselves and I could have done without Ryan), I dislike the road taken after. They should have attempted to get Bianca back on the dating ball at that point not give her another "platonic" girl-on-girl relationship (Babe) and more tragedy for plot (dead baby, platonic girlfriend has stolen baby). Kendall shouldn't have been stalking loser Ryan at that point, she should have been plotting with David - and IMO it wasn't so much the rape storyline that had her character make a real shift, it was being used to prop Ryan's stories (Kendall would have never stood for a guy treating her like Ryan did and go kissing tail after him and/or his wife, save the early plot driven Michael stuff). Making Erica a showgirl and her father a rapist dealer? Ugh.

[All My Shadows]

I'm not 100% sure but I think McTavish's first date back was July 9, 2003. I don't know if that was the airdate or her first day back at the studios or not, though.