P.J.

Yes. On a quick scan of eppys, Trish mentions Josh to Mike on 9/3/81 and Vanessa and Henry talk about a meeting with HB on 9/4/81. I can't immediately find a reference to Billy before Josh arrives, but in one of Josh's first convo's with Trish, he mentions Billy. There's not a lot of details about them, other than HB and Henry have been friends for years, and Trish describes her and Josh being bored during dinner as HB and Billy talk business. Marland plotted a year in advance, so it doesn't surprise me as much that the Lewises were at least mentioned. On ATWT, he would foreshadow new business people like Darryl Crawford and Damian Grimaldi coming to town all the time. Marland has them coming into money much later than Long did. Trish tells Mike that she wasn't "born" into money like Vanessa was, getting rich when she was 12. Under Long, HB hit his first oil well when Billy was a toddler, and Sally invested money in his company.

You know I do too. As much as I love Marland, I can't envision his Billy being as dynamic as Long's. And I suspect Josh would've remained more of a hothead/jerk, with stable older brother Billy reigning him in, much like the Seth/Holden relationship he wrote on ATWT. Trish and Josh were close---they just weren't overinvolved in each other's lives. Trish wasn't forced into the "little mother" role of the Lewis family until Reva blew into town.

Trish came to town first, around June 1981. But she had been mentioned long before that. Vanessa was telling Sarah in therapy that Trish was married to Andy Norris, and that Andy had abused her. (Andy was dating Katie in Springfield, who was Sarah's assistant/nurse which nowadays would be putting Sarah in an awkward position) The Lewises as a family started getting mentioned around this time, HB and Billy by name, and they are supposedly coming to town during this time. A deal with Lewis Oil is also the focal point of Diane Ballard's machinations, as she blackmails Henry (with the knowledge he fathered Quinton) into pressing HB into terms more favorable to Spaulding before she's killed. Josh came to town in October 1981. The backstory of Josh being hustled by Andy and Leslie Ann (aka Candy) for half a million was written by Marland. He created Josh as the black sheep of the family, where Long turned it around and made Billy into the screwup and Josh as more of the romantic loner. The Lewises as a family aren't considered "loud" or "invasive" until Billy and Mindy show up in May 1983. Granted, I get the "loud" part. I think the invasive critcism is mostly a reaction to other vets getting written out and Reva's arrival when the show pushes her front and center.

LOL...Keith Charles sure got around. Obviously, viewers at the time would've known about how old Hope was supposed to be, but 40 yrs later, and missing a significant amount of episodes, the waters are muddy. Thanks everyone!

i thought i read somewhere that she had an affair with a college professor....

Speaking of everyone seeming to be 30ish, how old is Hope supposed to be when she's married to Alan? From what I've seen, Mike seems overly involved in his adult daughter's marriage. I know Alan's bad news, but....

There was a very brief time after the Spa kidnapping where Carly (while not the town darling, is much more accepted by the old guard, notice Kim is also there...) and Lisa were at least co-existing peacefully. Lisa even briefly agreed to back a clothing line of Carly's. (Craig sabotages the relationship though...RME) Lisa goes back to full on ragging on Carly in '04. She's one of the only people who supports Julia2's relationship with amnesiac-Jack. Lisa doesn't turn on Julia2 until she starts whimpering in Holden's direction, affecting LILY.

Maura looked beautiful at Carly's first marriage to Jack. You can't really tell from these photos, but the skirt is fashioned to look like roses.

One has to wonder wtf was going through McTrash's mind. Although feeling as I do about Matt---it almost seems understandable..

Even when she was baby-faced, Budig seems a decade older than Bryan. I suppose we were lucky to have Bryan and Rachel as long as we did. In some ways, I think it was smart to let the Four go their separate ways. Phillip/Rick/Mindy would always touch base with each other while Beth was dead. Maybe if they hadn't rushed Phillip and Mindy into marriage, they could've played the Four out longer.

I was shocked to realize that The Four Musketeers period was so brief. Once Beth takes up with Lujack, she's out of the group and then she's dead. It's too bad they didn't stick with the OG Bill/Michelle/Ben longer.

I don't know when maturity got confused with "stale". What both Josh and Reva needed was healthy relationships with other people on their breaks. Not to mention teens acting like 40yr olds.

To me, of course Roger cared about what Springfield thought about him. The motive for all his power grabs is to show Springfield that he deserves the respect they denied him. I don't think Roger truly gave a damn about Maureen's opinion. I think he was more amused that Ed's wife didn't automatically consign him to hell. Talk of Roger and Holly's "love" makes me squeamish too. Whatever it may have started as, it became obsession. And for the writers to have Vanessa, who knew several women Roger used and discarded (including her daughter and stepdaughter) say that kind of pablum just proved they didn't know their own characters. Josh and Reva were perpetual teenagers, emotionally stunted by their first go-round and ensuing dysfunctional relationship when she married Billy. Reva is like a wrecking ball to that entire family, and somehow managed to play her victimhood (of not being born into a stable family like the Lewises) to the hilt.

I like the idea of Roger giving Springfield a final FU too. Roger thrived on showing up the "good" citizens of Springfield. I didn't need him to have some epiphany and try and mend fences with his victims. It's awkward enough to have Vanessa (by now on the mend) try and advise him not to marry Amanda if he didn't love her, as he'd "loved" Holly. Ugh...I kind of skipped around '96-'97, and to have Vanessa gush over eating chili dogs with him is just....very sad. And I did catch a couple of scenes with Josh--and it's like "Mr ExManWhore on his first marriage is advising Josh on how to handle his new marriage to Annie? The HELL you say.." It's funny...Josh picks lousy friends when Billy's out of town...Will and then Matt. RME. And while I hated how quickly Billy got chummy with Kyle, at least his friendships with Hamp and Ed made sense.

As treacly as most of Vanessa's illness is (no doubt thanks to the horrible writing of McTavish and Brown and Esentsten) there is one moment I'm glad I watched---Vanessa breaking down with Nola immediately after finding out her diagnosis. Maeve and Lisa sell it for all it's worth. And not to beat a dead horse, but Matt is even more obnoxious as Josh's default "bestie" after Vanessa's "death" than he was as her blue-collar, all knowing husband.

somewhere there's nice pics of Vanessa/Billy, but I can never find them.

I like the one she wore when Billy jilted her the most

LOL...I've been looking for the last half hour for a nice picture of that dress. Maeve just didn't age.

sigh...that's Nola's fault, but I digress. Vanessa got shafted in the dress department more than once. It's not that this one is bad, exactly. But when you watch the wedding, the hat just gets in the way of everything.

who wrote GL during the strike?

Not that I'd ever check about how serious it was, I do recall something about ghostNadine and ghostJenna arguing about which man was better for Olivia. I don't for the life of me recall Buzz/Olivia. All soap relationships veer into the toxic for a while. I loved Rick and Phillip's friendship. It's weird to see it blowing up over Meredith of all people. I did catch part of the episode before Rick and Meredith's wedding where Phillip now supports it and he, Rick and Mindy have a sweet 4 Musketeers moment. Like I said, 1988 is very strange to me.

It is odd how foreign 1988 feels to me. The show is revolving around two newcomers who are really only tied to Josh. As talented as Forbes and Breen were, it's always dangerous to shove newcomers down viewers' throats. And it's telling that just a year later, they are gone with barely a ripple to mark their exits. The Miracle of Dicopulous is that they found anyone he had chemistry with. He shouldn't have even lasted long enough to meet Melina. I would say he was luckier. Sloan's character was mostly there for decoration. Other than the affair with Ed, most of her time was spent as a talk-to character. Lilian never had a purpose or life outside of Beth. Frank got an entire family, (granted, mostly thanks to Beth Ehlers) and kept getting women. Mindy, Blake, Eleni, that girl Dana. Julie went whacko over him. HIM. C'mon. Also posted were a couple more October 88 episodes. Apparently Phillip's objection to Meredith is that she screwed him, and now she's not good enough for Rick...oy vey. Phillip/Rick may be more toxic than Josh/Reva And ditto on characters who stayed on long past their expiration date. The last decade-plus was filled with them. Matt, Jenna, the Santoses, anyone who called San Cristobel home, Doris and her annoying daughter, half the cast at the end, etc, etc, etc.

I'm positive Lisa was still married to Earl. No clue about Michael.

while this isn't exactly new, what's odd about this episode is that there are two scenes in English that weren't included in the original. The Billy/Vanessa scene at 16.48, and Alan/Reva starts 22.38.

Oh, because she was. It's strange to see Johnny taking on Phillip, and Mindy in the middle of a triangle with Frank and Will.