j swift

Lucy and Alan-Michael's wedding at Universal Orlando was just released on youtube. Note: if you're marrying the most eligible bachelor in town, get an elegant private space or tropical destination, not a public amusement park with strangers stepping on your gown and long lost relatives who can just drop in at a moment's notice. I wonder if there was a publicity tie-in with the opening of Universal because it seemed out of character for the entire Spaulding clan (and Reva) to suddenly go to Florida on a whim?

With Pat as Grace Coddington... Iris 1.0 and Steve 1.0 were never financial wizards. Steve needed John Randolph or Willis to manage his construction business and Iris used to hang around in a feather peignoir set until noon. Neither character fit into the late 20th century yuppy business model. But, it would have been interesting to see the interactions of their recasts. An Iris/Steve pairing would have driven Rachel and Alice nuts.

You make an excellent point I guess I was thinking of Mitch as a threat because he pinned for Rachel, whereas Steve dismissed her advances (except for his return from the dead, but I think of that as an Aussie doppelgänger). BTW whomever made the point about the Blackhawk value being threatened by a single deal also made a great point. Couldn't Aussie-Steve leverage his mansion in Bay City and a few of his daughter's horses to cover the loss? On the other hand, I hope Cory Publishing eventually made the move onto the internet because Brava would be worthless today.

You make an interesting point about killing Steve, although permanently sending him out of town would serve the same purpose plot-wise, I think you have to get rid of Steve in order to have the double wedding with Blaine and Sandy become a refreshing of the show. If Steve was always around as possibility then Mac becomes a second choice rather than the endgame that AW lore posited him to be for Rachel. I'm still amazed that they didn't kill off Mitch after his first stint. As Matthew's father Mitch was much more of a potential threat to Mac and Rachel happiness. However, as I recall, Mitch's return in 1986 did not have a significant impact on their relationship. Rachel was annoyed by his presence, and it affected her relationship with Felicia, but overall Mitch's return was kind of a dud. If it wasn't for his long lost brother and mother, I think they would have cut their losses and shipped him off to Africa much sooner. But I am bias because I've never liked characters whose sole trait is that they are brooding.

Jonah was styled to look like Manson, (scruffy bread, long hair), both stories played on pop culture fears about the use of LSD, he used young women to do his bidding like Manson, and the story began at the time of the Manson trial. So, that is at least four ways to suggest that it is not outside of the realm of possibility that Slesar was inspired by the events.

Didi and her police lover Calvin were always supporting characters although her performance during ISIS was memorable. I'm surprised that you've neglected to mention Cliff. Although he disappears from the canvas during the later years, he is a treat for when you revisit the Slesar period. When I watched originally in the 1980's I had no idea that there had been a change in head writers. However, at the risk of stating a controversial opinion, I think Slesar may be a bit overrated. His long term plotting was excellent and he created many unique characters. However, upon reflection, there was also a lot plot pilfering. Draper on the run after a prison train wreck and hiding in an abandoned circus owes a lot to the TV version of The Fugitive. There are obvious inspirations between the Keith Whitney story and Charles Manson. The Serena Faraday plot shares elements with Sally Field's popular tv film Sybil. The Clown Puppet murder story seems reminiscent of the contemporaneous Anthony Hopkins' movie Magic. And Faux Sky Whitney's stay at the Bryson Clinic for International Spies in need of Plastic Surgery may have been inspired by the Humphrey Bogart film Dark Passage. While it could be argued that many soap writers have "borrowed" ideas from other genres, I find the prior film fingerprints all over so many of Slesar's stories devalues my opinion of some of his creativity.

https://deadline.com/2020/10/the-masked-dancer-craig-robinson-host-masked-singer-spin-off-fox-1234604904/ It is amusing, but how could anyone identify a masked dancer? Dancers don't have signature moves that would translate to a masked competition. Call me when they do the Masked Artist and I'll be there in front of my TV.

You elicited so many great EON memories. I'll start with what you described so well as a "waterfall of interconnected mysteries". It was excellent plotting to have each story meld into the next. I still recall being honestly shocked by the identity of the Clown Puppet Murderer (no spoilers as per this thread's title). Blame it on my youth, but I recall at the time thinking that this was a new plot that had nothing to do with the ongoing story, so I was delighted to see how it all evolved and culminated into the mystery surrounding Sky. Extenuating circumstances, such as Larkin Malloy's injury, slowed the pace of the plot and may have contributed to a dip in viewer support. All of the prior plots were told interwoven and quick, but the Sky story (as much I enjoyed it) did tend to go on and on. I'm still a bit confused about his alter ego who also had a missing identity and how they all loved Valerie Bryson, but that's water under the bridge. Agreed on Chris Egen, she brought back the police element that began to slip away a bit after Deborah and her Rookie's-like-trio (very old reference that some gen-y-er's may need to google) left town. Loved Alicia and ISIS. First, she was one of the only real adversaries for Raven. Martine and Jody were no match for Raven's wit, and were certainly never a threat when it came to romantic interests. Alicia made Raven insecure, which was not a weakness that Raven allowed herself to feel, but it demonstrated to the audience how much Sky meant to her. Also, I loved the way that ISIS played into the pop culture of the time. People like Mike Karr turning into literal couch potatoes, the ubiquity of cable boxes, and the privacy fears of satellites. The disco that played subliminal messages was pure paranoid camp and it predated John Carpenter's movie They Live by a couple of years. I enjoyed the Alicia/Logan pairing and again was really surprised by the outcome. Obviously, given my username, I am an old school Swifty. The Corell sisters were a low point. A 40-year-old virgin was not the person I envisioned for Miles after Nicole's death. But, I still associate Marcia Cross with EON not Desperate Housewives. One of the worst recasts ever. They immediately put her in the frat mystery story, she sank like log, and then she spent the rest of her time on the show on the back burner. Her breakup with Preacher wasn't because they were poorly suited, he just got bored of her tight ass ways. I need to know more about your thoughts on this matter because to this day I adore Sky & Raven. Unlike every other soap couple, they never tried to domesticate each other, they were true partners, and as an audience member, you knew that they were very experimental in the sack (after all Sky employed a leather daddy as his butler and Raven had "European desires"). Again, I think extenuating circumstances like Sharon Gabet's pregnancy diverted some plots, (like Raven's very long kidnapping), but overall they seem like a very modern couple. A couple of things that went unmentioned in your post that I loved of that period. The female friendships between Mitzi & Jody, Raven & April, and Nicole & Nancy were refreshing. The idea that everyone had a career and a specialty that they brought to the story, even paleontology. The lack of kids and baby fever (with the exception of my namesake Jamey) made the town feel so mature and cosmopolitan. The awesome sets like the Cavanaugh penthouse and the ISIS building. And the humor of characters without being silly.

Brad showed tush on the Y&R primetime special, (which may have been broadcast in conjunction with that year's daytime emmys). My memory of CBS's tush tour was that it was especially homoerotic because it was rarely organic (i.e. when else did Brad and Jack ever have a discussion while showering together at the gym?), and each scene always involved a tight shot of the butt and then a slow pan upward.

I guess we can site DAYS Mike C Manning (Charlie) as the opposite of the trend of this discussion, a gay actor who was out in the press prior to being cast on a soap. He is a hopeful example of the liberation that gay visibility has brought to the acting profession.

I'd love to know the economics of these types of stunts. Does he get a cut of the photos that are sold or is he playing the long game of keeping his name in the press to attract future casting agents?

I wholeheartedly agree! I often don't have the patience to watch entire old episodes online, but this series is so entertaining because they distill the history into bite-sized pieces. The music and the editing make these addict-ably watchable. I also adore their annual reviews and longer character pieces. I am especially bemused by the titles that they gave to certain characters in the older profiles on the channel, such as Tangie Hill - The Brief Citizen.

How did she allow herself to leave the house (let alone be filmed) in that wig?

At the risk of entering into a discussion with which I have little personal experience, I think this discussion point has been misconstrued both here and in the widely discussed Vice article this week. The issue is not that black women are held to a different standard or the legitimacy of stereotypes about women of color. My experience of MtM and RHOP is that there are so few tv shows centered around the experience of successful woman of color that they feel the burden of representation. Therefore, they are hesitant about the audience response to their lives because Bravo viewers are exposed to so few black women that they might generalize the experiences of this small group of women to the culture as a whole. Ramona Singer does not have to worry that her edit will reflect poorly on the entire population of Upper Eastside divorced women with boob jobs, because there are so many stories about the lives of those women that nobody would assume that they are all like her. However, the women of RHOP, RHOA, and MtM are virtually the only representation of middle aged successful black women in media so they are constantly confronted with questions about how they represent their community.

While I wouldn't go as far as saying that I couldn't stand Kelli as Kim, it was remarkable that between Kelli's Kim, Randall Edwards' Delia, and Cali Timmons' Maggie, Roger Coleridge certainly has a type (lol). They were each schemers with a strong sense of family, always looking out for number one, driven to distraction by romantic fantasies, and always underestimated by their foes. Roger is truly a character that one would never see on a soap today because (a) his age (and his hairline) would be considered too niche, (b) his caddish nature would be considered undesirable, and (c) his complexity would never have been given time to develop. As far as the Proud and the Passionate, to me, there was always a funny through line about the character of Kim that she wanted fame, but she was not a gifted actress. She was always forced to seduce directors, or undermine the lead actors, to get parts because she wasn't very good. Even her own mother was never impressed by her skills on the stage.

You are correct. The issue was discussed in prior pages. At the time of the strike there was a newspaper article about scab soap writers that is cited here http://ryansbaronline.tripod.com/labinetimes88.html Labine lamented that the older woman/younger man story she created had resulted in an unplanned murder. She didn't name the characters in the story but viewers would have easily understood the reference. Worse yet, the scabs had written Kimberly into a corner. Rae had pointed the gun at Michael, but dropped it when she couldn't shoot him. Then, Kimberly shot Michael, but it wasn't initially fatal because, like Scrooge, he was visited three times before he died. First, Tiso Navatny's (sp?) hit-man found Michael close to death, but not dead yet, and left the scene. Later, Jack Fenneli (sp?) came to yell at Michael for screwing up his news story about the mob, but by that time Michael was dead and the police arrived at that very moment. Clearly, Jack was going to be unfairly tried and Rae, who felt sorry for the now pregnant Kimberly, was going to confess to save her daughter. Labine coarse corrected and somehow placed the blame on the mob, even though viewers clearly saw Kimberly shoot him, and she flashbacked to the shooting several times afterward. If this board existed at the time, we would have been up in arms, but savvy viewers who were aware of the strike in 1981 were more forgiving. Kimberly's pregnancy resulted in a lot of good stories, but it was probably never part of Labine's original proposal. But, that's what you get when hire a dude because he has smooth moves on the disco dance floor, rather than actual corporate experience. Interestingly, a 1991 article on Corbett noted that he got his real estate license after being fired from RH, and given that forty years later he still reports on real estate for Extra, it may have been kismet.

I was also never as much of a fan of RHONJ as I am of Potomac and New York. To me, a key distinction between the two shows was when Danielle pulled Margaret's ponytail (which sound ridiculous when just writing the phrase), it became about women in their 40's discussing the rights and wrongs of hair pulling, where as Potomac has broken the fourth wall and discussed the implications of being on a show that portrays violence between two women of color. Which may be why the Jersey women are often the subjects of ridicule through the editing of their show and their tacky displays of wealth, while the Potomac women feel as if they are in on the joke.

What chilled me to the bone was Monique's demeanor that continued into the next day. She was filled with misguided rationales without any insight into how extreme her reaction was to the situation. I also really appreciated the context that each of the other women discussed in terms of the racial and gender implications of being a part of a tv show that showed physical violence between two women. It was very compelling. Between this and the Staci interview, at some point Tamron's just going to have to rename her show Watch What Happens 2.0

Pete and Diana were a little too similar to the rich girl/poor boy/father's disapproval story of Kit and Joey to stomach a second time in two years.

I have a long held theory (for which I would like to gather more evidence), that one of the tell-tale signs of poor soap writing is repeating first names of prior characters. While I understand that a name like Vic is common, I would propose that the choice to name a character with the same first name that viewers would recognize from just a few years prior is indicative of a writer who is either unfamiliar with the history of the show, or doesn't value the long term commitment of the audience.

This article refers to Ben Masters as Vic. I was just reading about John Considine's Vic Hastings, who was hired by Alice to run Frame Construction after Steve went to prison. But was there another Vic? Note that nobody argued for the continuing story of Pete and Diana (from the long lost and never to be heard from again Aussie Frame family tree). Also, isn't weird to think of a time when soaps were so popular that a writer could cite a plot in a daily newspaper and expect that the readers knew the reference? Yet, it always strikes me as reductive when soap critics blame the writer for the quality of the production. 1982 was bad time for NBC in general. The ABC soaps were kicking butt, NBC prime time was failing, and the company was about to be sold, so it would be a bit of an overstatement to suggest that the writing alone was the cause of AW's misfortunes.

Agreed, Henry Sleasar's scripts continued to reference Springfield later in the story. In 1982, Jody returns to Springfield to see her dying mother, (who had a prior affair with Ben Travis, Nicole's father). The mother (who is referenced as either Billie-Lorraine, Leonie, or Billie-Mae in different texts) was smothered to death soon after Jody's arrival leaving her an orphan (Jody's step-father and brother had been killed by the mob) and prompting the Republic of Eden plot, (possibly the nadir of the show). At the time it seemed to be a P&G "generic" Springfield, and not necessarily the place where Reva Shayne et al lived. It does bring up an interesting question of why the character was named Jody Travis. Of course, she and Nicole shared a father, but she was the product of an affair which she found about after her stepfather and stepbrother died. So, why did she refer to herself using the surname of her biological dad, whom she had never met, as opposed to her step-father who raised her? Obviously it was a plot devise to clue in the audience regarding Nicole and Jody's relationship, but upon reflection it doesn't make much sense.

OMG, I adored Therese Lemonte! Bye Bye Blackbird on Iris's terrace and then kaput; amazing. I don't remember anything about Carol, but Therese was iconic. [Edited] I read the 1975 soap history thread on these boards about Carole Lemonte; she was quite a cruel minx. Gaslighting poor Lenore, trying to get her medical history from Russ and her legal history about the Addison murder trial from news archives. I appreciated the timeliness of Lenore's wanting to work outside the home, and Carol using Lenore's stress over balancing work and motherhood to set her up to fail around the office. And, Steve having to remind Robert that women should be allowed to be more liberated. Who knew Steven Frame was so progressive? Also, Lenore's mother appropriately suggests she go see the psychiatrist. When was the last time soaps didn't demonize mental health issues? It was a great example of 1970's soapiness because there were layers of Lenore being jealous not just of Robert's attraction to Carole as a younger woman, but also her jealousy of Carole's career accomplishments, coupled with the over the top reaction of Carole snooping around Walter Curtin's untimely demise. One gets the sense that in 2020 female soap characters are only concerned about affairs of the heart and they never talk about their ambitions in the workplace; unless they are schemers or objects of scorn. So, Olivia came after Robert had already left town? That seems so odd to tie her to a character that was no longer on the canvas. Also, it is interesting that Vic Hastings, (John Considine's character), was pretty important to the plot during his time on the show, and then they re-hired the actor to play Reginald Love. I know there is a list somewhere on these boards of actors who played more than one character on the same show, but it always strikes me as an indicator of a production team that devalued the audience's experience of soap history.

So, I'm re-reading the history and my memory escapes me on a couple of issues related to my favorite AW leading man, Robert Delaney. 1). I've totally conflated Olive Randolph and Olivia Delaney. On the Another World homepage, it mentions that Olivia came to Bay City to track down her husband Robert. I recall Robert being married to India in Somerset and then Lenore and Iris, so where does Olivia fit in the timeline? 2). What caused the breakup of Robert and Lenore? I know there was a tell-tale scarf that lead to the revelation of Walter Curtin's guilt in the murder of Wayne Addison, and I think Walter died in a car crash soon after it was revealed, but when did Lenore find out that Walter was guilty? And why does it say that she left Bay City to protect Wally from Walter's guilt? Finally, Lenore and Pat were close, but what was her relationship like with Iris and Rachel? 3). I recall that Larry helped Clarice raise Cory, her son with Robert whose existence drove Iris to nefarious deeds. What were the circumstances that lead to Robert finding out that he was Cory's father? Did he contribute monetarily to Cory's upbringing? How long were Robert and Clarice involved and how would you characterize their relationship (a fling, a rebound, or was there any sense of them being destined for each other). BTW Cory Ewing and Wally Curtin would have made excellent legacy returns later in the series, such a shame that they were neglected by subsequent writers.

I just re-read the 1980 synopsis of AW and it was really good. The Janice/Mac/Rachel/Mitch story had its climax in March (so odd to think of time when soap climaxes didn't have to coincide with sweeps weeks), the drama with Pat, Cecile, and Phillip at Brava seemed like a fresh new situation for old characters to thrive, and Kit Halloway as a Patty Hearst prototype was intriguing. For those unfamiliar with the story, Kit came to Bay City to get away from the press attention she suffered after being kidnapped by left wing radicals. Elena, Cecile's mother, recognized her from the society pages and outed her to the rest of the town. Which then caused a rift between Mac and Pat about publishing a story about Kit in Brava and further blowing her cover. I was a Joey Perini fan, and I recall that AW botched the landing of the Halloway family by bringing in too many of them too soon, and eventually both the Perini's and the Halloway's were all written out, but I like when soaps dramatize stories that were ripped from the headlines. The Halloways were sort of the Loves 1.0; an earlier attempt to establish another wealthy family in town beside the Corys.