DRW50

Thanks. The only reason I wasn't sure about Breen is because he debuted on ATWT several months later. I had forgotten about Roya's Ava and the gun. You're right that it's an odd choice. None of The City group worked for me on Loving as they feel so out of place. At the time I probably resented Jocelyn the most, due to us clearly being meant to root for her over Ava and Ava/Alex. @Soaplovers Thanks so much for the rundown about Cecilia. It sounds like a bit of a mess on paper, as a number of plots in those years do. What does work onscreen tends to be down to the performers.

Thanks so much @Forever8 ! I looked on Youtube and don't see any other versions of this episode. So many recurring/bit players in so many stories. Marland mostly managed to make it work but when they tried to keep on in 93/94 with this format they just couldn't. If Marland had lived I do think, brain damage or not, he would have had Holden as a loving father to Aaron. The decision to have Holden ignore his son after taking him from Iva and even spending far more time with his girlfriend's son, was horrendously damaging to Holden as a character. I never noticed how much Marcy looked like Lyla.

You aren't wrong about any of this. I imagine if Spencer returns, we will get more of his past with Emma (I'd guess he and Gio would be in a triangle with Emma), but for now they seem to not care. They should be doing more with Brook Lyn's angst and pain, especially as it is an aspect Amanda Setton is better at playing. They should have done more with Cam and Lucky during his brief return, as Cam seemed to see Franco as his "father." But they didn't even want Lucky back, in my opinion, so I'm not surprised they didn't bother.

How do you think the actress who played Blaze feels...

Thank you. We see more of Cassandra James in that promo than we likely do on the show.

Thank you @slick jones and @jam6242 . Barely even a Wiki in spite of a lengthy career. Odd. Thank you both for helping get her out there. A real looker - reminds me of Bette Davis, just more glam. I'm glad soaps were able to help her in her last career years. I wonder if anyone ever even interviewed her.

The repeated Buffy references seemed to be Passions' cultural peak.

I do wish we had more of Rita's actual exit because it seems like so much took place after she left that she should have been there for. Add in the Ed recast and how flat a lot of the Hope/Alan material feels afterward, and I wonder what might have been. I think Kobe and Vincent had a bad falling out over his wanting to be in the movie Marie, which is probably why he was killed off.

That may be it. Thanks.

It did seem like for a while they moved away from saying much about the family in comparison to stunts or couples, but I agree not much will change, especially if the idea is that Will's daughter showing up means a Horton focus. I noticed that they made sure to point out Gwen's return was set up before they took over. I guess they don't want any blame for that flop. Thanks @janea4old

We were talking a few pages ago about this portion of the show being hornier than previous years (or many years after)...this just all seems like being pervy in lack of having any real idea what to do. Even reading about this story in the GL anniversary book I was confused. Who decided that Kyle/Roxie was a good idea, especially in these circumstances? Did they think it would make him look like a rogue? Eddie Dorrance (I think). He did. That was the role which made him. I think he got an Emmy, or a nomination.

The ever confusing younger actor categories where 25 year olds duke it out with 5 year olds. Kathleen Widdoes did have some lead material that year with Ned Simon's death, but I'm surprised she got a lead nomination.

Richard Higgs.

Great job @Paul Raven. I think Renee was brought in by the Dobsons.

Thank you.

There's a line in one episode where one of the "good" characters expects Vanessa to gloat over a tragedy (someone dying or losing a baby), and Vanessa says she isn't heartless. So Marland probably was going to soften her with time, as you mentioned. I have seen the different phases of Warren while perusing those years, but none are overly convincing to me. I think the role was miscast. I think Warren Burton was mostly chosen because he had just gotten off AW, where he had also stayed for a strangely lengthy amount of time. I wonder if Trish was written out because she was seen as too dull for the Lewises. Or if Gail Kobe was just obsessed with dumping any character she didn't create. I wonder if she would have been written out in 1983 if not for her last name. The Lewises never have that center after she leaves - Vanessa gets that role, which is a drag on her. Rebecca Hollen was such an understated presence contrasted to how overheated that period can feel. I wish they'd seen her potential.

The Bold and the Beautiful- April 20, 1992 (most) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Thanks. I couldn't remember if he was off for a bit while in prison. I wonder if they would have recast Rita or if Lenore was willing to return. The pregnancy fits with the later rumors they were going to make Gus her son with Alan.

That period seemed so averse to sex appeal. I was watching Trish's last scene yesterday (Vanessa is so sad, it breaks your heart a little), and Ross gives Trish a very passionate, tender goodbye kiss. I was reminded that Ross often was a passionate man. I assume the idea was that this Carrie was meant to be more cute than sexy because one of the Carrie alters represented her sexuality, but I do think that the Ross we knew would not have been so happy with just '40s style banter. Thanks. The handling of Vanessa at that time always seemed to be whatever the plot demanded. If Marland had stayed I imagine she would have finally gotten around to bedding Floyd, Kelly, Justin and Mike. (Vanessa/Justin could have made for a strong pairing, as Vanessa isn't far off early Jackie) I often forget Warren was even meant to be a villain, although I know he did turn into a killer and held India hostage, or whatever went on. The main parts I remember with him when I watch his run is Alexandra's sassy friend, who I guess was meant to be in love with her (Henry/Katie, look out!). The show never really did have a good villain in those years, or for many years. Edmund in later years sort of worked, but the writing for him was such a mess and relied on DAM. If they hadn't taken Will Jeffries too far, he could have worked. And thanks for the answers about Hilary and Josh. You are right that Hilary could have been used to befriend anyone across the canvas. Of course, that's why she was killed...can't have that type of character on the show. I so agree about Diane. I do hope it was Sofia's choice to leave. If not, what a mistake. She is so compelling to watch and has so many layers even though on paper she should have been as much of a plot device as early Vanessa often was. I have seen so little of Alan/Rita, but you make them sound like what could have been a fantastic pairing for Alan (although it couldn't have lasted even if Lenore had stayed, given their personalities). If story plans had to be cut short, that helps explain why Alan is at such a lull (wasn't Bernau also ill at this time or am I mistaken?). The focus on repairing his marriage to Hope is a bit flat, made worse by Marland draining all the life from Hope.

I wonder how much of the OLTL snub was down to how many people in the industry seemed to dislike Gottlieb. Marland seemed to have his share of beefs in daytime, but also seemed loved and respected by many.

The show having a majority black cast is great and is one of the ways to bring in new viewers or lapsed daytime viewers. Sticking with the status quo, or the agonizing tokenism of, say, GH, is a bad idea. I don't think anyone here would want to change that. I think some of us were just trying to figure out if there was any way to thread the needle in getting lapsed viewers and some of the remaining soap fans who may be less willing to give the show a try, but I guess it was never going to happen.

Thanks. I do wonder how true that is for the Emmys at this time. Was there much of a history of them throwing awards at rape and abuse stories? I guess maybe GL winning in 1980, but that was for material after the rape storyline had already been on for months. They also got no writing or acting nominations at that time - no Maureen Garrett or Michael Zaslow. I also see nothing given for AMC's very strong Natalie rape storyline. Judi Evans won an Emmy for playing a rape victim, but I question whether anyone voted for her just for that reason. I guess there was Santa Barbara, although they won three years in a row. I'm all for calling out awards bait storylines - they are one of the main reasons I no longer watch British soaps - but I think there were other reasons for ATWT winning at that time than just this story. But I would have to go back and watch GL and ATWT or their submissions more closely to see.

This is another reason I wish they'd considered making a half-hour soap. I think 30 or 15 minutes are about all many can watch now. Tik tok videos seem to be the acceptable length for many these days. I do agree with you that I don't want to see racists catered to...it's unfortunate that is much of what is left of the daytime audience, due to soaps chasing away viewers who wanted more diversity or representation beginning in the mid '90s.

I don't disagree with you, but for some reason I do connect more with Marland's last years (not all of it - Rosanna, the John/Iva pairing, and yes, the therapy-speak and defanging of anyone beyond guest baddies). They seem most authentic to him and are a fascinating window, with some years-long arcs that aside from Carolyn Crawford have sizable payoffs. His first years are better soap, in many ways, certainly livelier, with a number of very strong set pieces, but they are also so Lily-heavy, plus the attempts at camp and comedy don't feel overly genuine to me. I also dislike the Margo/Tom stuff of that period more every time I try to watch it. That middle period, 88-90, may be the most interesting of his run, if we are analyzing, due to the producer changeover and Marland clearly struggling with where to go after the strike and a number of actor departures.