15 hours ago, kalbir said:

For the longest time I had no idea that Victor meeting Hope in Kansas was a redo of a Bill Bell Days storyline. 

In the radio soaps thread, it was said a similar story was done on a radio soaps years before (amnesia and the farm elements) that Bell may have taken inspiration from. 

On 9/16/2025 at 12:31 PM, BetterForgotten said:

In the radio soaps thread, it was said a similar story was done on a radio soaps years before (amnesia and the farm elements) that Bell may have taken inspiration from. 

Found it. The Road of Life.

 

After watching it these past few weeks... I would add... The homophobia-Billy Douglas- AIDS Quilt storyline on OLTL in 1992. I've never cried so much in my entire life. 

8 hours ago, Maxim said:

After watching it these past few weeks... I would add... The homophobia-Billy Douglas- AIDS Quilt storyline on OLTL in 1992. I've never cried so much in my entire life. 

Some years back, I had the opportunity to share with OLTL's Susan Bedsow-Horgan how powerful Billy's story was and how it transformed my life. At the time the story aired in 1992, I was immersed in a born-again religious cult. I got hooked on OLTL while I was recovering from an illness. The frank portrayal of intolerance in Llanview opened my eyes to the intolerance in the cult and in my own life. Billy's story prompted me to sever ties with the cult and put me on the path to accepting my own sexuality. Truly an amazing story.

1 minute ago, robbwolff said:

Some years back, I had the opportunity to share with OLTL's Susan Bedsow-Horgan how powerful Billy's story was and how it transformed my life. At the time the story aired in 1992, I was immersed in a born-again religious cult. I got hooked on OLTL while I was recovering from an illness. The frank portrayal of intolerance in Llanview opened my eyes to the intolerance in the cult and in my own life. Billy's story prompted me to sever ties with the cult and put me on the path to accepting my own sexuality. Truly an amazing story.

Thank you for sharing your story. A powerful testament of how life changing soap operas can be. Michael Malone and his team deserve all the credit for this storyline. Your courage and strength shine through! 

16 hours ago, Maxim said:

After watching it these past few weeks... I would add... The homophobia-Billy Douglas- AIDS Quilt storyline on OLTL in 1992. I've never cried so much in my entire life. 

The storyline was very poignant and very well handled. I had had to drop OLTL completely in the 1980s (after watching it for 15 years) because of the damage Paul Rauch and the idiotic sci-plots did to the once-fine and respected show, but the Billy Douglas/AIDS quilt storyline pulled me back in. That surprised the heck out of me, but it ended up being a memorable time in Llanview's history.

7 hours ago, robbwolff said:

Some years back, I had the opportunity to share with OLTL's Susan Bedsow-Horgan how powerful Billy's story was and how it transformed my life. At the time the story aired in 1992, I was immersed in a born-again religious cult. I got hooked on OLTL while I was recovering from an illness. The frank portrayal of intolerance in Llanview opened my eyes to the intolerance in the cult and in my own life. Billy's story prompted me to sever ties with the cult and put me on the path to accepting my own sexuality. Truly an amazing story.

Thank you for sharing this chapter of your life. At their finest soaps can entertain, enlighten AND enrich people's lives. The genre has lost/abandoned real attempts and enlightenment nd enrichment, but daytime TV had a real impact back in the day.

Perhaps not a masterpiece but thinking back to when Nancy F replaced Susan Keith as Cecile, I was upset. It always took me a while to warm up to recasts, if I ever did.  But Nancy Frangione didn't take long to become my then favorite. A week? Two? A month at most.  I believe it was a scene between Cecile and Jamie played by the great Bekins where she lets him know how she used him. She had me. Cold as ice, resting b@!*& face. Yet she could grab my heart in an emotional scene.

 

She was so badly wasted on her returns to the show.

On 9/23/2025 at 3:59 PM, Stevel said:

Perhaps not a masterpiece but thinking back to when Nancy F replaced Susan Keith as Cecile, I was upset. It always took me a while to warm up to recasts, if I ever did.  But Nancy Frangione didn't take long to become my then favorite. A week? Two? A month at most.  I believe it was a scene between Cecile and Jamie played by the great Bekins where she lets him know how she used him. She had me. Cold as ice, resting b@!*& face. Yet she could grab my heart in an emotional scene.

 

She was so badly wasted on her returns to the show.

Unfortunately, many beloved returnees were not served well on their soaps. To me, the biggest waste of talent (and a major failure on the part of TPTB on AW) was their shockingly-incompetent handing of Jacquie Courtney's (Alice Frame) return in 1984.

I would give Jacquie Courteney the award for most wasted return, given her earlier importance. She was arguably the star during her initial run.  At least the emotional center. 

 

Alice Barrett was another but her character had been killed off.

1 hour ago, Stevel said:

I would give Jacquie Courteney the award for most wasted return, given her earlier importance. She was arguably the star during her initial run.  At least the emotional center. 

Gary Tomlin, the writer at the time of JC's return in 1984, later admitted that he had not studied the history of the character, and therefore didn't really know what to do with her.

I was dumfounded. I suppose I appreciated Tomlin's being honest and taking the blame for the fiasco, but what sort of careless incompetence leads to not DOING YOUR JOB and researching your own show?

If Susan Lucci returned to AMC after an extended break, and TPTB did nothing with her except have her be a talk-to for Bianca, would that be an acceptable excuse? ("Oh, we didn't know much about Erica and what she meant to the audience, so we basically ignored her...then we dumped her because she wasn't making the ratings soar.")🙄

Supercouple, endgame,etc. All those terms deserve the derision they receive.

But Alice and Steve were the first true supercouple to me before the term existed. Of course they couldn't have been without horrid Rachel as the obstacle.

And she was truly horrid. She wasn't a murderous psychopath or an evil billionare genius. Just a damaged, sad  person with issues and misplaced priorities, who acted out.

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Stevel said:

Supercouple, endgame,etc. All those terms deserve the derision they receive.

I tend to agree, because mainly TPTB try to manipulate the audience into seeing the producers' and writers' own  designated couples as the ones we are supposed to root for (whether the actors actually have chemistry or not). Viewers will only see romantic pairings as "super couples" worthy of being "endgame" if their charisma and chemistry ignites our imagination and devotion.

5 hours ago, Stevel said:

But Alice and Steve were the first true supercouple to me before the term existed. Of course they couldn't have been without horrid Rachel as the obstacle.

And she was truly horrid. She wasn't a murderous psychopath or an evil billionare genius. Just a damaged, sad  person with issues and misplaced priorities, who acted out.

Jacquie Courtney and George Reinholt sizzled together on screen. Their "je ne sais quoi" appeal was tangible and magnetic. Yet, the triangle was made even more memorable by the layers and facets the writers instilled in Rachel. Her behavior and actions were heinous, but she was so broken and miserable, we could see her pain. Multi-dimensional villains are much more interesting than the flat, cartoonish ones so often seen in the modern-day soaps.

Give me a Rachel Davis over a Stefano DiMera any day.

@vetsoapfan How would you rank these vixens: Lisa Miller the OG vixen, Agnes Nixon creations Rachel Davis and Erica Kane, Bill Bell creations Jill Foster and Brooke Logan.

2 hours ago, kalbir said:

@vetsoapfan How would you rank these vixens: Lisa Miller the OG vixen, Agnes Nixon creations Rachel Davis and Erica Kane, Bill Bell creations Jill Foster and Brooke Logan.

Oooh, what a thought-provoking question! The only good thing about being so old, LOL, is that I saw of all these fascinating women in their heyday.

Lisa Miller really was the trailblazer. She was selfish, amoral and an unstoppable force in the beginning. She manipulated the Hughes family into giving her and Bob Grandpa 's bedroom because it was bigger, and because they supposedly needed it more. Kindly Grandpa didn't put up a fuss, but it infuriated the audience.

Unsatisfied with Bob and bored by menial tasks like housework, Lisa hired a cleaning woman to deep-clean the house, then gallivanted off with her extramarital affair partner to cheat on Bob all day. Later, Nancy returned home, looked around at how spotless everything was, and exclaimed, "Why Lisa! How wonderful you are!" Lisa just preened and basked in the praise. I think that is when viewers truly started to loooooathe her.

Rachel Davis and Erica Kane shared many traits in common, which is no surprise since Agnes Nixon freely acknowledged patterning Rachel after Erica, whom Nixon had conceived years earlier. The best thing about these women is that, while they were deeply flawed and destructive (as much to themselves to as those around them), they were both driven by pain; a feeling of rejection and abandonment by their fathers. Their thirst for money, position, and a better life was borne from a desperate need for validation and social acceptance. They drove us crazy,, but we couldn't help but pity them, too, because they were such suffering antagonists.

At the beginning of Y&R, Jill Foster was actually seen as a hard-working, altruistic, decent young girl who stood by her family and was devoted to her single mother, even though we knew how sad and unfulfilled by life she was. She had dreams of a better existence, like so many people mired in poverty do, but she still had a sense of right and wrong.

One day, a prostitute named Gwen Sherman came into the beauty salon where Jill worked. Upon hearing Jill long for the better things in life, Gwen assured her there were ways to make money quickly. She took Jill to the outskirts of Genoa City, to the bordello where Gwen worked, and let Jill look around. While we could tell that Jill was intrigued and tempted by the money potential, she ultimately realized she couldn't go through with it. Her morals wouldn't allow it. Sadly, as she was leaving, who should show up at the front door but Snapper, who was there with a buddy to partake in a night of sexual debauchery. 

Showing how much of a hypocrite he was, Snapper instantly erupted in disgust and fury at Jill, and smacked her hard across the face. As far as I know, she never went back to the cathouse. But continued  hardship (and abuse by Katherine Chancellor) eventually wore away at Jill's soul and her dedication to morality started to fracture. We then saw what she became later in life.

The best thing about Brooke Logan was her relationship with Stephanie, IMHO. They were Yings to each other's Yangs. Brooke reminded me of Jill Foster and how Jill evolved, but watching the years-long interplay between Stephanie and Brooke really gave B&B a strong foundation at its core. I don't think the show has ever fully rebounded from the loss of Stephanie Forrester. She was a force of nature!

I'd put all these women in the "love to hate" category. There were characters who made you mad, made you swear at the TV, but most importantly made you WATCH. We couldn't look away because their antics were so absorbing.

It's all relative of course, but I would rank my personal favorites as:

1. Rachel Davis

2. Lisa Miller

3. Jill Foster

4. Erica Kane

5. Brooke Logan

Love your take Vetsoapfan. Lisa was the first enduring one I remember. As a youngster I remember her antics driving adult conversation for hours after her appearances.  

The Edge of Night was another show that initiated conversation and I watched more of it once I started school. If I ran I could make it home in time. Its bad girls never lasted long in those days.