8 hours ago, prefab1 said:

The only time I've found Sidwell interesting is when he had some scenes with Lucas a few weeks ago where Sidwell was clearly flirting with him. So if they plan to make Sidwell bisexual, that would give the character some layers. And it would also be hilarious if homophobic Natalia ended up with a daughter, a son, and an ex-husband who are all part of the LGBTQ community. 

Diane would love it. When Natalia first showed her true stripes as a homophobic bigot Diane said it was not at all unusual for someone like her to have gay family.  Diane would be vindicated. Now if they could only get her a decent wig.

9 hours ago, Antoyne said:

I find myself wondering. Why exactly is the show so blatant in trying to white wash Sonny. Who are they trying to convince? The remaining fans of the show clearly know he sucks and they haven’t stopped watching. It’s like they’re trying to convince themselves that the same character they will literally show us murdering others is great because they’re conflicted themselves. It always amazes me that anyone against Sonny is considered a villain. Why? Because he helped out Robin and Stone in the 90’s?

Maybe this is his Last Subway to Bensonhurst Farewell Tour.

8 hours ago, Vee said:

And it's clear many of them BTS either like Maurice personally too much (or find him too indispensable to the show's ratings) to see objectively.

I think it's more of the latter.  MB has always appeared to be a BTS favorite, but I think the concern about ratings is the main issue.  I actually do think suddenly killing off Sonny or having him leave would hurt ratings at least at first.  We've discussed very solid ways to gradually shift MB/Sonny to the background and that should be starting now considering his story is so weak.

Emma is awesome

18 minutes ago, jasonminer1974 said:

Emma is awesome

The writing for her is amazing. I'm always afraid though when they write a female character with such intelligence, courage, inner strength, I must say it: spunk, how soon will they change all of that to make her suitable for some romance? Or, put another way, can a girl from the soaps actually have a spine & still get a boyfriend?

57 minutes ago, carolineg said:

I think it's more of the latter.  MB has always appeared to be a BTS favorite, but I think the concern about ratings is the main issue.  I actually do think suddenly killing off Sonny or having him leave would hurt ratings at least at first.  We've discussed very solid ways to gradually shift MB/Sonny to the background and that should be starting now considering his story is so weak.

I tend to agree. A lot of fans can't stand Sonny, me included, but he still has supporters, even on places like Twitter. And the show seems likely to double down on familiar faces who are so emmeshed in the framework the way Carly/Jason/Sonny are. You could argue they should focus on someone like Liz instead if that is the case, but there's a long history of taking her for granted. Sonny has always been seen as being on some kind of unshakeable ground, maybe aside from the end of Guza's run.

This may also be part of Frank and co wanting to double down on what is intrinsic to GH (for better or worse) compared to BtG. As younger viewers or viewers more interested in diversity move on, we're going to get more of the same old faces.

Edited April 3Apr 3 by DRW50

28 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

I tend to agree. A lot of fans can't stand Sonny, me included, but he still has supporters, even on places like Twitter. And the show seems likely to double down on familiar faces who are so emmeshed in the framework the way Carly/Jason/Sonny are. You could argue they should focus on someone like Liz instead if that is the case, but there's a long history of taking her for granted. Sonny has always been seen as being on some kind of unshakeable ground, maybe aside from the end of Guza's run.

Yes.  I have said this before but I have always heard Sonny was more popular with offline fans.  I have no idea if that's true.  If you were a lapsed or casual viewer I could see how the familiarity of Sonny/Jason would help getting you back into the show.  I just don't know if there are lapsed or casual viewers making any difference.  

32 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

I tend to agree. A lot of fans can't stand Sonny, me included, but he still has supporters, even on places like Twitter. And the show seems likely to double down on familiar faces who are so emmeshed in the framework the way Carly/Jason/Sonny are. You could argue they should focus on someone like Liz instead if that is the case, but there's a long history of taking her for granted. Sonny has always been seen as being on some kind of unshakeable ground, maybe aside from the end of Guza's run.

I always assumed that Frank/ABC must have some audience research showing that a significant number of viewers tune in specifically for Sonny. He just shows up in so many more episodes than anyone else--on average, he appeared in more than 3 episodes a week last year! 

I doubt that they're researching the equally important question--how many lapsed GH viewers are staying away from the show because of the intense focus on Sonny? (Until a few months ago, I was one of those lapsed viewers; I didn't come back until they killed off Sam, another albatross character). Maybe they could just compromise and just cut his episode count in half; even then he'd still be showing up in 80 episodes a year!

1 hour ago, jasonminer1974 said:

Emma is awesome

I love Emma too!

17 minutes ago, carolineg said:

Yes.  I have said this before but I have always heard Sonny was more popular with offline fans.  I have no idea if that's true.  If you were a lapsed or casual viewer I could see how the familiarity of Sonny/Jason would help getting you back into the show.  I just don't know if there are lapsed or casual viewers making any difference.  

I think at this point it may be just trying to hold onto whatever older viewers they have rather than expecting lapsed viewers to come back. There are older viewers who were watching GH long before there was a Sonny, I'm aware, but I wonder how many of the people who are seen as the current viewer base are still in that demo. Bringing Emma back may also be part of wanting to keep that base around, as to a certain generation of fans, the mid '90s will always be the ideal (Emma wasn't around then, but Robin was).

30 minutes ago, prefab1 said:

I always assumed that Frank/ABC must have some audience research showing that a significant number of viewers tune in specifically for Sonny. He just shows up in so many more episodes than anyone else--on average, he appeared in more than 3 episodes a week last year! 

I doubt that they're researching the equally important question--how many lapsed GH viewers are staying away from the show because of the intense focus on Sonny? (Until a few months ago, I was one of those lapsed viewers; I didn't come back until they killed off Sam, another albatross character). Maybe they could just compromise and just cut his episode count in half; even then he'd still be showing up in 80 episodes a year!

You're right. I imagine a number of fans did quit because of Sonny. They may think focusing on those they still have is more important. 

Then you have the attempts to try to possibly bring back past viewers, which seem very half-hearted on the show's part, like Lucky's return. I don't think it helps that Lucky became such a meaningless character and JJ's last return was poor, but still, the lack of effort (beyond digitizing flashbacks) and the general lack of interest from viewers go hand-in-hand. 

Ideally this would be the time to start cutting back on Sonny, even if he never goes away. If writing scenes about how awesome he is means less of him, the tradeoff would be worth it.

21 minutes ago, prefab1 said:

I always assumed that Frank/ABC must have some audience research showing that a significant number of viewers tune in specifically for Sonny. He just shows up in so many more episodes than anyone else--on average, he appeared in more than 3 episodes a week last year! 

I doubt that they're researching the equally important question--how many lapsed GH viewers are staying away from the show because of the intense focus on Sonny? (Until a few months ago, I was one of those lapsed viewers; I didn't come back until they killed off Sam, another albatross character). Maybe they could just compromise and just cut his episode count in half; even then he'd still be showing up in 80 episodes a year!

I don't want to shake you to your core or anything but I'm guessing you are imagining a level of "market research" that does not align with reality. So, a few things.

Nobody has any idea what comes out of Disney and/or if they apply any resources to GH. 

GH itself: 1 Social Media person, Frank's posts are not from Frank & are from his Assistant. And, 2 interns. 

Now I'm sure they must have mechanized, computerized methods of harvesting fan engagement data off of different sites & platforms online but to a large degree the basis is the old stroke tally. The computer program records how many times Carly is posted, or Liz & Lucky, etc. but you see that has NO context. 

For example haters of Carly who use a car emoji with an LY added to it are doing that so they don't add to Laura Wright's huge fan engagement numbers. They've become savvy to not writing out the character name in letters. 

The show, of course, has call-in lines & what you say is recorded & ALL of it is transcribed, put into a text report & distributed however that is set up. So, there it is possible to express context.

This is just meant to be helpful & is info I & others have gleaned over time & I'm quite sure there is a boatload of info none of us has any clue about. 

And, I hate Sonny & I always have but have never considered not watching because of it. 

Just now, DRW50 said:

I think at this point it may be just trying to hold onto whatever older viewers they have rather than expecting lapsed viewers to come back. ... 

I don't know if you recall this but when Varni came back last year he made 3 or 4 twitter/X posts over 2-3 days. One of them was specific where he stated as a major goal of his to get lapsed viewers back. 

(One was a general, hey, I'm back post; one was getting onto fans for posting criticisms & that's all I have recall of.)

12 minutes ago, Contessa Donatella said:

I don't know if you recall this but when Varni came back last year he made 3 or 4 twitter/X posts over 2-3 days. One of them was specific where he stated as a major goal of his to get lapsed viewers back. 

(One was a general, hey, I'm back post; one was getting onto fans for posting criticisms & that's all I have recall of.)

I didn't see that. If that ever was the plan I imagine something has changed or the works have been gummed up. The Lulu and Lucky returns are about all they've done, and Lucky's return has felt like it was not wanted by the show (or a number of fans) from the start.

I guess there's also Lois. And Tracy. Was that Varni?

Edited April 3Apr 3 by DRW50

1 minute ago, DRW50 said:

I didn't see that. If that ever was the plan I imagine something has changed or the works have been gummed up. The Lulu and Lucky returns are about all they've done, and Lucky's return has felt like it was not wanted by the show (or a number of fans) from the start.

Well, if we were to put them together, Varni's stated lapsed viewer goal with Lulu & JJ's Lucky in a way that's not very much but in a way it's sort of huge. Although I think we are only now seeing their investment in Liz & Lucky. How many very old flashbacks have they paid to have modern digitized & then used them very well dramatically?! The slow dancing, the photo booth, the scene during their teen NY weekend, some exterior, ... Plus the writers' quote that this couple is "foundational to their view of the current canvas". 

And, yes, the people who self-identify as Liz fan who are against L&L2 totally befuddle me. Their girl has gotten so much more time onscreen!!! 

 

2 hours ago, Contessa Donatella said:

The writing for her is amazing. I'm always afraid though when they write a female character with such intelligence, courage, inner strength, I must say it: spunk, how soon will they change all of that to make her suitable for some romance? Or, put another way, can a girl from the soaps actually have a spine & still get a boyfriend?

I think her and gio will be fine without changing her

2 hours ago, carolineg said:

I actually do think suddenly killing off Sonny or having him leave would hurt ratings at least at first.  We've discussed very solid ways to gradually shift MB/Sonny to the background and that should be starting now considering his story is so weak.

Yep, and agreed on both. We've discussed it forever, often in the context of elevating Brenda. It's doable.

I've said it many times: I don't need Sonny or Carly or even Jason to go. I don't want Carly gone. I do think you can change how you use them or what their stories are, and run out the clock on Jason if not Sonny as well.

3 hours ago, carolineg said:

I actually do think suddenly killing off Sonny or having him leave would hurt ratings at least at first.

I unfortunately have this viewpoint, as well. He's been at the forefront for such a substantial period of modern time; it would likely devastate the canvas, as unfortunate as it is. But, I do believe if they were able to build outside of Maurice Benard (Sonny) over time, and then pull him back, it'd be an easier exit.